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The Demiurg, a second installment

 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:20 pm 
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I don't mind the size of escort squadrons too much (they're only escorts afterall)!

I agree that we shouldn't delve too deeply into the Demiurg fluff, it would be nice, but it could (would) be totally stripped by anything GW releases, best not invent near all the fluff for an existing official race.

Cheers,

RayB

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:05 pm 
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I was thinking for escorts that maybe there could be a totally militerised escort based on the buttress (the crenalation class possibly) without the cutting beam but with more torps

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:12 pm 
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I love the idea behind this race and i would love to see them actually expanded beyond the current 2 ships :)


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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:28 am 
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Hi Pointy death,

I think the cutting beams add the character to the rules (as the demiurg don't get slowed down by blastmarkers because of them). I wouldn't be too happy if a demiurg ship didn't have one! (Although it is only an escort...)

Cheers,

RayB

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:21 pm 
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The idea is okay, but I'd be quite against doing rules for ships that have no model.

Harking back a bit now, I feel the Garrisson(formerly Seige) class should perhaps not be taken as a proper part of the fleet. Why? Well, in it's current form, I'm not too keen on the model, and the after a bit further discussion, then more thinking, I find myself finding it very out of place alongside the rest of the Demiurg fleet.

The Citadel is still a good idea IMO, but I can't help thinking it should really be 'properly' bigger. A 12 HP ship, and perhaps a bit of bulking to the sides of the ship rather than plugging in those (IMO out of place) turrets. In that regard, the big 'fin' things on the hull of the Stronghold could probably be doubled up or extended to account for a huge bulking of the ship.

That said, as part of the full fleet list, I'd say that the only ships that *should* be in it are the ones with proper models. Now this half rules out the Rampart, but up close the modified Defence Monitor is incredibly similar to a Demiurg Ship, so I think it's fair enough to keep that 'in'.

Xisor

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:45 pm 
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Hi Xisor,

Whoa! Only having ships in the fleet list that have existing models!? That's not really a fleet list!:;):

(Citadel) The Citadel could have 12 hits by being slightly bulked up and using the 'extra crew card'! (To be honest my model does look bulked up enough to add another hit or possibly 2 (with the extra crew card!), you can't really see the added antenae in the picture but they give the impression of a bigger ship).

(Garrison) The background needs works as no one seems to like it, fair do's though it was a bit ambitious (the Farsight of the Demiurg!) What if it were a heavy mining ship? (Having the cutting beam of the Stronghold? It makes little difference really! Apart from to the fluff!) A ship designed to 'pick' asteroids apart with its cutting beam and lances!

(Escorts) I'm all for using the Demiurg shaped xenos vessel as the butress, and I'm not against using other models to cover another class of escort as long as it looks suitable and is either easy to convert or easy to buy. (there shouldn't be more than 2 classes of escort!)

Cheers,

RayB

Ps: Good to be back!

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:50 pm 
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posted by Raysokuk
Ps: Good to be back!

Who are you?
:p

As for the Garrisson fluff expanse on the Mining background. And for the escorts, well the only problem is that the butress is based on the model from Xenos blister pack from SG. To get a couple of them is a little expensive.

Maybe you have connections to get them seperate?

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:41 pm 
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Indeed, they seperated the ones that didn't need seperated! Orcas! Who's going to buy one orca?!

A Buttress on the other hand...

The Rampart is a very nice ship. okay, it costs ?6 a shot, but it *is* very nice(now having seen Nerroth's in person). Personally I'd drop the system ships he has attacked, but it does make a nice 'diorama' model.

The Garrison, I agree(obviously). That said, all cutting beams are for that purpose(gouging recalcitrant moonlets iirc). I'm finding a really hard time justifying it :(.

The Citadel, I still *like* it, but I'm wary of putting it in the fleet as opposed to having it more akin to a 'Character Ship'(don't worry, I'm not gonna steal the idea and try putting it into the Competition!) like the Planet Killer, Ramillies or Blackstones.

Xisor

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:03 pm 
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I have no problem with it being a character ship (i.e. 0-1 choice) as that totally fits. (the problem with character ships is that some should have an opponents permision disclaimer! Like the PK!) Is that what you had in mind?

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RayB

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:28 pm 
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Basically,  yeah. That's about exactly right in my mind. I'm still perplexed by the Garrison though.

Xisor

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:44 pm 
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Hi Xisor,

I really feel there should be 2 cruiser variants to make the fleet list at all interesting.
The Garrison is a good ship and has its own role (Like a super Hades!).
A thought has occurred though, what if it had 3 Dorsal lances and a launch bay (with that it claws its way back into plausibility as a mining ship)

++Fluff++

Specifically designed to mine 'gromide', an essential ingredient for their sought after 'gromril' artefacts ( :D ), positions onboard a Garrison are sought after by many wide eyed prospectors, occasionally from numerous clans! Being the only cruiser sized vessel capable of mining 'gromide' the Garrison makes a heavy return for all mining endeavours and as such can afford to acquire and maintain the very finest weaponry and machinery.

Due to the guaranteed wealth many captains find themselves reluctant to crew their ships with the usual crew complement, instead trusting superior automation and a choice of highly capable crewmen across numerous clans. Garrisons are often referred as 'Prospectors' due to their specialised displacement, but if the price is right they may be seen fighting along side any fleet with a planetary income to fall back on!

+++++++

Cheers,

RayB

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:49 pm 
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Keep the fluff. Good. I like where the list is going.

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:51 pm 
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Thats all very well for a Squat starship IMO, but perhaps you've forgotten: These are the Demiurg.

I may not be quite as informed as you are(HA member, you remember?  :p ) but as far as I was aware the idea with all 'non-official' or 'proto-official' work on them is to leave as much options open as possible.

So far in that short space you tied them to the Dwarfen properties of:

- Rampant Capitalists
- having 'positions' available on board-ship
- having clans
- having captains
- associating themselves with gromril  :angry:

At least the Hrud got away with only being tied down to the Skaven traits of:

- Vermin, from a human society standpoint(ie living in their waste and shadow)
- associated with poision
- associated with slaves
- subterranean/nocturnal

I guess, in face of all the Demiurg fluff so far, it's too accurate for my liking. It gives too much away as definate. Implications, lack of total knowledge on subjects, speculation and a good dose of 'I don't know, but if I were to guess...' from an Ad Mech Magos or an Inquisition is always better IMO when dealing with this kind of thing.

The concept is good though: a highly specialised mining vessel.

That said, my main and overwhelming fear is still in place:

I'm not too fond of the model(in hindsight). :down:

Xisor

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:19 pm 
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hehe, I would never consider making this official! It was just a bit of fun that I threw down on the page. But you are right we should keep things as vague as possible. And definately not mention Gromril! :p

And to let on, all I know about Demiurg are the conversations of draft background and the odd bust or model (they look cool!)

So with that in mind:

++Fluff++

It's possible this ugly ship exists!

++End Report++

:p

Cheers,

RayB

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 Post subject: The Demiurg, a second installment
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:30 pm 
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I suppose there's no hint at all if it sounds like I've been wasting my time with things, or if (given the view of stuff I've thought of as 'ideal' before now) I'll be sorely disappointed?  :80:  :cool:




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