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| Space Wolf Fleet List http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=6561 |
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| Author: | Admiral d'Artagnan [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
Space Wolves Fleet List Fleet Commander A Space Wolf Fleet does not follow the normal organization as the other races fleets and follows its army organization more closely. As such a Space Wolf Fleet must include 1 Fleet Commander for every 750 points of ships. 0-1 Venerable Dreadnought You may include 1 Venerable Dreadnought. The Venerable Dreadnought must be assigned to the Battle Barge and may not be used in any fleet list that does not include a Battle Barge. If there is also a Venerable Battle Barge in the list, then the Venerable Dreadnought will be automatically assigned there. Venerable Dreadnought (Ld 10) - 125 points You may buy Fleet Commander re-rolls. One re-roll - 25 points Two re-rolls - 50 points Three re-rolls - 75 points The Venerable Dreadnought also has other special rules: Old & Wise: Improved Attack Rating Venerable Dreadnoughts are wise in the ways of war. As such, they add +1 to the Attack Rating table when rolling for scenarios. In case of a tie or the Attack Rating table is not used, then the Space Wolf player can get to re-roll the dice to see who moves first. Hard to Kill: Repair Criticals The Venerable Dreadnought is integrated into the ships systems when it is aboard where it can command the battle more efficiently as well as direct their efforts at any damage control. When a Critical occurs, any ship with the Venerable Dreadnought needs a 5+ to repair Criticals during the End Phase. Leader: Improved Boarding The ship with a Venerable Dreadnought may re-roll the D6 roll when the ship it is on is involved in a boarding action. The second roll stands. Long Fang Fleet Leader You may include any number of Long Fang Fleet Leader to satisfy the 1 Fleet Commander in 750 points rule. They can be assigned to a Strike Cruiser. If there is a Battle Barge in the fleet then he must be assigned there unless a Venerable Dreadnought is also taken. Long Fang Fleet Leader (Ld 9) - 75 points You may buy Fleet Commander re-rolls. One re-roll - 25 points Two re-rolls - 50 points Three re-rolls - 75 points The Long Fang Fleet Leader also has this special rule: Fire Control The Long Fang Pack Leader automatically passes the Leadership test to fire at anything but the nearest enemy. Wolf Guard Battle Leader You may include any number of Wolf Guard Battle Leaders to satisfy the 1 Fleet Commander in 750 points rule. They can be assigned to any ship. The Wolf Guard Battle Leader has one re-roll to use. Wolf Guard Battle Leader (Ld 9) - 40 pts One re-roll - 25 points Two re-rolls - 50 points Three re-rolls - 75 points In addition, the Venerable Dreadnoughts ship may carry a Terminator Boarding Party for +20 points. However, Space Wolves have little trust or respect for the more arcane aspects of teleporting and dislike the idea and are stubbornly opposed to its use. Therefore a Space Wolf Fleet cannot do a teleport attack. Instead the Terminator Boarding party confers an additional +1 to the D6 roll when the ship is involved in a boarding action. Once the Terminators have performed in a boarding action, they may not be used for the rest of the battle. Blood Feud The Space Wolves never forget a grudge and have had a millennia long feud with the Dark Angels Space Marine Chapter and the Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marine Legion. When facing a fleet of Dark Angels or Thousands sons then the Space Wolves may not disengage until the Dark Angels or Thousand Sons ship is either destroyed or has disengaged itself. When going onto 'Lock On' special orders against a Dark Angels or Thousand Sons crewed ship, space wolf ships gain +1 Ld. At the start of the game you must determine which models are Dark Angels or Thousand Sons. On the other hand, Dark Angels or Thousand Sons ship/fleet also gains this advantage against the Space Wolves. CAPITAL SHIPS Venerable Battle Barge You may include one Venerable Battle Barge in a fleet worth more than 1,500 points. However, since the Space Wolves are more of an assault type of marine, they are limited to only using ships with Launch Bays as their Venerable Battle Barge. This limits them to the Emperor, Oberon, Despoiler predecessor, Styx or Mars. The usual rules involving a Venerable Battle Barge is followed. Venerable Battle Barge - Point Varies 0-3 Battle Barges You may include one Space Marine Battle Barge for every 750 points or part thereof in your fleet. In addition, you can include an Assault Barge or Invasion Barge instead of a regular Battle Barge but the regular Battle Barge must be taken first. Space Marine Battle Barge - 425 points Space Marine Assault Barge - 400 points* 0-10 Cruisers Space Marine Strike Cruisers - 145 points Space Marine Assault Cruisers - 160 points*** 0-1 Captured Cruiser Space Wolves are notorious for capturing and using Imperial or Chaos ships, much to the consternation of the Inquisition. At the start of the game, roll a D6. On a six, you may include one Imperial or Chaos regular, heavy or battle- or grand cruiser to use in your game. You can either pick the cruiser from what?s available in the Imperial or Chaos fleet lists if your opponent agrees or roll for it using another D6. Die Roll - Ship type 1?3 - Regular Cruiser 4 - Heavy Cruiser 5 - Battlecruiser 6 - Grand Cruiser You must then adjust your fleet list accordingly to fit the captured cruiser?s cost in the agreed points of the battle. In this case, the normal restriction for acquiring heavy, battle- or grand cruiser is waived. Additional notes for Captured Cruiser Captured ships with launch bays will be upgraded to use Thunderhawks as per rules (half available bays rounded up). Captured ships with Nova Cannons always re-roll the scatter dice with the second roll standing or choose to replace the NC with FP6 30 cm LFR Bombardment Cannons for free. Captured ships with torpedoes get access to boarding torpedoes for free. ESCORTS Rapid Strike Vessel (Firestorm) - 45 points Rapid Strike Vessel (Sword) - 40 points Rapid Strike Vessel (Cobra) - 35 points Hunter class Destroyer - 40 points Gladius class Frigate - 45 points Nova class Frigate - 50 points ORDNANCE Any ship with launch bays carry the Thunderhawk Gunships. Ships with torpedo tubes are armed with ordinary torpedoes and boarding torpedoes. |
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| Author: | Admiral d'Artagnan [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
Space Marine Capital Ship Variants Space Marine Assault Barge: 400 points* Type/Hits: Battleship/12 Speed: 20 cm Turns: 45 Shields: 4 Armour: 6+ Turrets: 4 Armament | Range/Speed | Firepower/Str | Fire Arc Port Launch Bays | Thunderhawk: 20cm | 2 squadrons | - Starboard Launch Bays | Thunderhawk: 20cm | 2 squadrons | - Prow Launch Bays | Thunderhawk: 20cm | 3 squadrons | - Prow Bombardment Cannon | 30cm | 3 | Left/Front/Right Dorsal Bombardment Cannon | 30cm | 8 | Left/Front/Right Notes: The Assault Barge may replace its Prow Bombardment Cannons for Strength 6 torpedoes at no extra cost. The Assault Barge also earn 3 Assault Points for every turn they spend landing troops or bombarding the planet rather than 2 as is normal for SM. Space Marine Assault Cruiser: 160 points*** Type/Hits: Cruiser/6 Speed: 25 cm Turns: 90 Shields: 2 Armour: 6+ Turrets: 2 Armament | Range/Speed | Firepower/Str | Fire Arc Port Launch Bays | Thunderhawk: 20cm | 1 squadron | - Starboard Launch Bays | Thunderhawk: 20cm | 1 squadron | - Prow Launch Bays | Thunderhawk: 20cm | 2 squadron | - Prow Bombardment Cannon | 30cm | 3 | Left/Front/Right Special Rules: for every variant cruiser, you must have 1 standard cruiser Acknowledgements: A lot of the base stuff I used is based from Games Workshop. I also acknowledge Xabre who designed the Assault Barge and Assault Cruiser and who did a lot of the work in coming up with points. |
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| Author: | Admiral d'Artagnan [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
After I saw RayB put up the BT list, I decided to post my SW fleet list. Might be too overpowered at some aspects but I think I balanced it out with other aspects. There are a few other SC variants but I only chose those two as they represent the assaulty-ness of the Space Wolves. Comments and critiques welcome. 
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| Author: | Archer [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:00 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List | ||
Are you insane, or did you mispost the Exterminator Barge weapons? FP27 Bombardment Cannons F/L/R?  Assuming you are sane and just posted it incorrectly, FP19 bombardment cannons is still a heck of a lot despite their range... Other than that, I like your SW fleet a lot more than Ray's BT fleet simply because it is so much simpler (or at least appears to be). One thing might be to reduce the number of rerolls or make them cost more so a player cannot get a ridiculous number of them. Perhaps keep three available to the Venerable Dread, but only one (or two) to the Long Fang Fleet Leader. |
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| Author: | Admiral d'Artagnan [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
Whoops!!! My bad. Not insane, just sleepy. ?  That's what you get for copy pasting at 10 in the evening and about to go to sleep. Heheheh! My apologies. Fixed it along with the Siege Cruiser.As for FP19, yeah, seems too much but then again, just stay out of the range of the ship and one has no problems. Also, one needs to take a standard battle barge first before one can get it so there is a built in safety of sorts. ? I did use Smotherman to try and compute for it. Turns out the Barge is already waaaaaay overpriced if we follow it. I increased the price at 500 just to be sure people don't get choked with the FP19 BCs. Regarding the re-rolls, sounds reasonable. Let me think about it. |
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
First: Good! That's what we want here! First reply: commanders & special rules. Fleet Commander A Space Wolf Fleet does not follow the normal organization as the other races fleets and follows its army organization more closely. As such a Space Wolf Fleet must include 1 Fleet Commander for every 750 points of ships. | |
| Author: | blackhorizon [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
Space Marine Capital Ship Variants Space Marine Assault Barge: 400 points* Type/Hits: Battleship/12 Speed: 20 cm Turns: 45 Shields: 4 Armour: 6+ Turrets: 4 Armament | Range/Speed | Firepower/Str | Fire Arc Port Launch Bays | Thunderhawk: 20cm | 2 squadrons | - Starboard Launch Bays | Thunderhawk: 20cm | 2 squadrons | - Prow Launch Bays | Thunderhawk: 20cm | 3 squadrons | - Prow Bombardment Cannon | 30cm | 3 | Left/Front/Right Dorsal Bombardment Cannon | 30cm | 8 | Left/Front/Right Notes: The Assault Barge may replace its Prow Bombardment Cannons for Strength 6 torpedoes at no extra cost. The Assault Barge also earn 3 Assault Points for every turn they spend landing troops or bombarding the planet rather than 2 as is normal for SM. | |
| Author: | Admiral d'Artagnan [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
I based the Long Fang Fleet Leader on the Space Wolves Long Fang Pack Leader. Basically, the LFPL can split his squads fire. Since BFG already allows split fire, I made the LFFL able to fire on farther targets automatically. It was either him or a Rune Priest but the Rune Priest's Storm Caller is too much if he can cover a 5km long ship. With regards to the Ven Dread, I could give him Re-roll instead of the bonuses in boarding actions for the Leader special rule. What do you think? Your advice on the Exterminator and Siege ships have merit. 
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
I based the Long Fang Fleet Leader on the Space Wolves Long Fang Pack Leader. Basically, the LFPL can split his squads fire. Since BFG already allows split fire, I made the LFFL able to fire on farther targets automatically. It was either him or a Rune Priest but the Rune Priest's Storm Caller is too much if he can cover a 5km long ship. | |
, of course re-roll stands. 
| Author: | Admiral d'Artagnan [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
I changed the Ven Dread Leader Special Rule. I also limited to 2 re-rolls the number the Long Fang Leader can purchase. I also changed cost of Assault Cruiser to 160. Made a mistake as I was using the table for 2 THs per side launch bay. I reduced it to 1 and forgot to lower the cost. My bad. Going back to one of your points re the Assault Barge being too cheap, the strange thing is, when Xabre and I were reverse engineering the points, it turned out the Battle Barge was waaaaay overpriced. The Assault Barge also turned out cheaper than a standard Battle Barge. Turns out the WBs were more expensive than the THs. The difference was 30 points so Xabre lowered it by 25 to 400. Re Blood Feud, I was choosing between hitting at 3+ or improved crit rolls. Htting at 3+ would have been scarier so I chose critting. Anywaym it's limited only to those 2 navies and it cuts both ways. Think of it as both sides knowing each others tactics and targetting the ships to full effect. |
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| Author: | Hellebore [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
I think BFG is one of those games where less is more. The fewer special rules and options to more of a perceived affect they have on the flavour of the list. The space marines are a case in point. all of the special rules for space marine ARMIES are really inapplicable when it comes to fleet engagements- as their fleets have very few marines in them for a start, and hitting your opponent on a 3+ in close combat is alot different to shooting him from 3,000 km away:p One thing you really have to ask yourself is would these kinds of upgrades acutally have any affect on the combat prowess of a space marine fleet? There are dozens of different types of eldar aspect warrior, but the simple and elegant +2 to bording actions for aspect fighting crews is more than adequate to incorporate this into such a large scale game as BFG. So what do you look at to differentiate between the chapters? Space wolves prefer close combat, so that obviously makes boarding a priority. They work in warband-esque formations so the concept of the 1 leader per 750 pts rule fits. They hate the Thousand Sons, and so wish to see their ships destroyed. This would call for the inability to disengage and Ld modifiers more than damage modifiers. Another thing the space wolves have, more so than other chapters is that they actually use modified imperial battleships as Barges, generally acquired through right of conquest. This I think is perhaps the best way to differentiate a Space wolf fleet from another marine fleet- allow them to take modified battleships. This would be something like: for +20 pts the battleship follows all the rules for marine ships and replaces its lance armament with bombardment cannon (equal strength swap). It can fire boarding torpedoes and halfs its launch bay strength, launching only Thunderhawks. This is how I would see a space wolf Fleet (incorporating some of D'Artagnan's ideas): Space wolf fleet Fleet Commander A Space Wolf Fleet does not follow the normal organization as the other races fleets and follows its army organization more closely. As such a Space Wolf Fleet must include 1 Fleet Commander for every 750 points of ships. The leaders are 10 pts cheaper each as you MUST take them. Wolf Lord (Ld 10) - 40 pts Battle Leader (Ld 9) - 20 pts One re-roll - 25 points Two re-rolls - 50 points Three re-rolls - 75 points Blood Feud The Space Wolves never forget a grudge and hate the Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marine Legion. When facing a fleet with Thousands sons in the Space wolves may not disengage until the Thousand Sons ship is either destroyed or has disengaged itself. When going onto 'Lock On' special orders against a Thousand Sons crewed ship, space wolf ships gain +1 Ld. CAPITAL SHIPS Venerable Battle Barge You may include a Venerable Battle Barge in place of a normal battle barge in the fleet list. These may only be chosen from Imperial navy Battleships. Each VBB MUST be upgraded for +20 points to this status. All Lances are replaced with 30cm ranged bombardment cannon (at the same strength). The LB have their strength halved (rounding up) and may only launch Thunderhawks. Torpedoes are replaced with boarding torpedoes (ie they can't launch ordinary ones). Venerable Battle Barge - Point Varies Space Marine Battle Barge - 425 points Space wolf Cruisers Space Wolf Heavy Strike Cruiser Many a Space wolf Strike crusier is simply a retrofitted imperial cruiser, and although they do not have the armour or speed of a conventional strike cruiser, they are able to deliver boarding torpedoes at a higher rate and sustain much more damage. For +20 points an imperial cruiser (not grand cruiser or battleship) replaces all Lances with 30cm ranged bombardment cannon (at the same strength). The LB have their strength halved (rounding up) and may only launch Thunderhawks. Torpedoes are replaced with boarding torpedoes (ie they can't launch ordinary ones). 0-5 Heavy Strike Cruisers You may take 1 heavy strike cruiser for each Space marine strike cruiser in the fleet. Points varies 0-10 Cruisers Space Marine Strike Cruisers - 145 points ESCORTS Rapid Strike Vessel (Firestorm) - 45 points Rapid Strike Vessel (Sword) - 40 points Rapid Strike Vessel (Cobra) - 35 points ORDNANCE Any ship with launch bays carry the Thunderhawk Gunships. Ships with torpedo tubes are armed with boarding torpedoes only. I think that more than special rules it is fleet restrictions that make marine chapters different from one another. The salamanders have the best artificers outside th AdMech, but that only makes their ships look pretty.  hellebore |
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| Author: | Admiral d'Artagnan [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
Ok some thoughts: 1. The Wolf Lord and Battle Leaders are ok but they don't really do anything. That's why I went the way of the Ven Dread. To add some of the SW feel. Same reason I went with the Long Fang Pack Leader because they are more expert at heavy weapons. Also, one should only be able to take 1 Wolf Lord. Abaddon has a lot of rules then you add the Chaos Lords and as long as one pays for them I think it is ok as long as it takes into account the fluffy feel for the fleet in question. 2. The Blood Feud idea looks ok. 3. Capital ships. Now while SW do use IN ships, I think this would go against the GW ruling saying the SMs will never have an 8 HP cruiser. The other Chapters will have a say against this and also disadvantageous to them. 2 of them in a 1000 point fleet is dangerous. I could take upgraded range Tyrants or TH armed Dictators (while expensive, does give them 3 shields to work with). Worse, it could take a Dominator. Now wouldn't that ruin your opponent's day? 3 SCs and 3 Doms escorting a VBB in a 1500 point fleet. Limiting it to 0-1 is possible but still dubious at best. Maybe limiting the class also. Now allowing them to take battleships for their BBs. I think it's a bad idea as well. Even at +20 the SW player can churn out Emperors and Oberons without the cruiser limits. It will now have a cheap gunship in the Ret. And an Apocalypse would be modified to have FP6 BCs and still have the NC. Lost out a bit on the lances since FP6 BC is poo but the NC will more than make up for it ands the speed will increase. EDIT: I noted you limited the IN Battleships as VBBs in the list. I thought you meant to use them as regular SM BBs. 4. Also note, I haven't really added to the efficiency of the fleet in ship to ship battles per se. Mainly only in boarding actions. The Blood Feud I have now replaced with your idea. |
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| Author: | Admiral d'Artagnan [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
Added the Wolf Guard Battle Leader, changed the Blood Feud to Hellbores' suggestion and removed the Siege ships. 
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| Author: | Hellebore [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
Hey someone agreed with something I said! The VBB thing was more a reflection of the Bill King Space Wolf novels where the main characters go to a campaign aboard a captured imperial craft and that it makes oblique references to most of the space wolf fleet being similarly equipped. Of course, such a twist to the list would need to be SEVERELY limited, but i thought the idea sound. The only reason I felt the ven dred and long fang pack leader upgrades a little unnecessary was that there are races with numerous reasons why they should have similar upgrades (like eldar spirit stones helping with repair, Dark reaper exarchs allowing their ship to fire on different units etc). Also, As the Battle leaders and Wolf lords are the actual leaders of the space wolves, i wasn't sure whether long fangs would have any place in the fleet, but maybe it would make sense, them being veterans they become the equivalent of admirals etc in space wolf fleets (using their age and level headedness to good advantage- and letting the young bloods do all the close combat) Abbadon is a unique leader, so his special rules make sense. Perhaps if you changed Venerable Dreadnought to Bjorn the Fell handed as a 0-1 upgrade it would be better. Still available, but with a little flavour. hellebore |
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| Author: | Admiral d'Artagnan [ Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolf Fleet List |
Hey if it sounds feasible, why shouldn't I include it? The Blood Feud is much simpler and as you said, simpler is better. The VBB and HSC are fluffy but I think we really need to tweak them As it is, I only know the SW have access to the Emperor (although before this was a Ret AFAIR) and a Dominator (but really, I think a Dominator is too unbalancing). At best, the HSC should be a 0-1 to all SM lists and 0-2 for the SW I think. The age factor was one of the reasons why I preferred to use the Ven Dread and Long Fang Pack Leaders as the primary Fleet Commanders. Of course, I can use the Wolf Lord but I would think the Wolf Lord would be more concerned with the ground activities than space borne battles. I see the Wolf Lord as the leader for the entire Chapter and not just command from a ship. So the Wolf Guard Battle leader would be more suited in the game. I just gave him a built-in re-roll so at least he won't be too cheap. I still like the Ven Dread so will be keeping him for now. ANyway, the Ven Dread doesn't come cheap.
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