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The Orks need your help
Shinnentai
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:35 am 
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I'm actually liking both of these ideas. As for the turret save, I can easily see how more Ork turret gunners would spot a larger wave than a smaller one - their sensors are just that unsophisticated! Individual sqns would have a much greater chance of launching their ordinance before they were detected by too many turrets.

Its an interesting comparison to make : other races have less AA guns but they are well co-ordinated and have better sensors. The Orks have more than enough AA guns, but they're not co-ordinated and only a few will notice the enemy - they'll be too busy dakkai'ng away to inform the other gun-crews :(8:. The rule really represents this well.

As for how to explain the 'shoot-down' value of the turrets and also the bomber suppression value - just note it on the stat-sheets. EG 5+/2 would mean that ordinance is shot down on a 5+, and bombers get D6-2 hits. Easy.

I don't see how the fighter suppression rule becomes any more complicated, since the Ork turrets would work in exactly the same manner as normal ones when it comes to calculating number of bomber hits. Its just the method of how they shoot them down that is changed.

I also don't see that this system is intrinsically powerful. Sure it would have to be balanced as to what stats each ship got, but the opponent would just be splitting his bombers into individual sqns anyway. Torps on the other hand, even an Ork can hit them! :alien:
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VanDoo
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:03 am 
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You make valid points. I will have to consider this.

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Hellebore
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:27 am 
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Quote (Shinnentai @ 29 Nov. 2005 (18:13))
Quote (VanDoo @ 29 Nov. 2005 (15:17))
I don't see how this is any worse than rolling for your gunz each time you fire them. Besides, you only have to roll when you come under attack.

Because you don't have to note down how many guns which ship has once you have rolled them - it's just a system that increases the randomness of Ork firing in the best traditions of the 40k universe, in exchange for slightly more dice rolling. It does not increase book-keeping. Random shields and turrets does.

As I said, interesting idea but with a definate disadvantage. I foresee a lot of confusion as to which ships have which shields/turrets for those who don't keep such neat records ( not that I'm stereotyping Ork players as such :;): )

EDIT : Great work on the ship as usual, Krooza. And thank you for having that avatar - it cheers me up each and every time I see it :8): .

I was under the impression that you rolled for strength EACH time you fired- thus one turn you might get 4 shots, and another you could get 10.

However, if it is as you say, roll for them at the beginning of the turn and write it down, then I have been using them wrong.

hellebore

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Shinnentai
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:31 am 
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You misunderstand me Hellebore.

I was just saying that the fact that you roll for the gun strength each time you fire is the very reason that random gunz do not add to the book-keeping.

However, under Vandoo's initial proposal for random shields/turrets you would have to note down how many each ship had the first time it used them. This would add to the book-keeping.

However, the conversation has moved on to Vandoo's new proposal that would maintain the random nature of the shields even better without adding to book-keeping - its really a very innovative idea - deceivingly simple once someone has thought of it.
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VanDoo
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:36 pm 
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Quote (Shinnentai @ 01 Dec. 2005 (23:31))
However, the conversation has moved on to Vandoo's new proposal that would maintain the random nature of the shields even better without adding to book-keeping - its really a very innovative idea - deceivingly simple once someone has thought of it.

:blush: (Wow, what a lame blush smily)

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Ekranoplan
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:30 am 
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VanDoo's new proposal seems to be spot-on.
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VanDoo
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:25 pm 
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Since their seems to be support for the shield idea, I think I will forward it to the SG guys. Who should I send it to? I.e. with whom do I have the most chance that they will actually read and reply?

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blackhorizon
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:25 pm 
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Ray Bell (Mod-Raysokuk at the SG forum), who is from the BFG High Admirality reads these forums. So your proposal has backup so he could pick it up.

Otherwise send him an e-mail with the proposed rule. Ask him to release it as an official experimental release.

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VanDoo
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:43 pm 
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Will do. I hope he says yes.

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phindar
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:21 pm 
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Take this from a newbie.  I hope I am not making stupid suggestions:

Maybe instead of the 1-6 kroozer restriction,  a 25% escort requirement (to make big mobs as orks are supposed to have) is in order.
Instead of limiting hammers to 1 every 2 kroozers,  allow a max of 25% of the army to be composed by hammers.  I really do think that hammers should be available as "regular" kroozers.
Of course,  no one would take the other 2.  But NOT being "unique" maybe it should be limited to 1 for 1 regular instead of 1 for every 2 regular ones like the unique ships.

I would like to see a mob rule where you counted the total hits left on  a squadron and have that give you a bonus to LD.
Maybe, each wounds/4 could give you a +1.  I dunno.  But that's an idea.  

The way it is now,  I fail to see a single advantage on the ork fleet.  Lots of restrictions but not a sigle advantage.
Well, maybe ramships but they are so hard to use that it isn't really an advantage.

my 2 newbie teef
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frgsinwntr
 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:19 am 
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I honestly think a simple points reduction of 10 pts per escort (5pts for the brutes) and 20pts for the kroozers would totally fix the ork fleet.
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Blackphoenix
 Post subject: Re: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:56 am 
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Not meaning to thread necro here, but wasn't there something about giving the Orks 1/2 their hits worth of turrets (Crusiers and Battleships) but only have them work on 6s?

So the Kill Kroozers/Terrorship would have 5 turrets at 6 and the Battleships would have 6 turrets at 6.
The catch is as you loose hit points you also loose turrets, take 4 hits on a Kill Kroozer and you'd be dropped to 6 hits and 3 turrets...

The idea was the ork hulls were littered with guns and as the ship is destroyed, mass amounts of those guns go with it reducing its ability to defend itself.
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mspaetauf
 Post subject: Re: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:19 am 
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I have an Ork fleet, and I don't think they are too bad.

Also, I quite like the heavy guns, especially on my escort ships. A formation of 3 can be really devestating - if I get 3 hits in, I suddenly have 6 hits :D

no way I'd prefer a bombardment cannon. Range could be a bit higher though, maybe 20cm?

I don't like ramships. Use the cruisers to ram... after all you've got 10 hits and 6+ armour front. If you can't hit anything, use a large base...

In one of the older Warprift issues was an article on Ork fleets. I thought it was spot on.

cheers,
Markus
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