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Eldar ship design opinions

 Post subject: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:34 pm 
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Hello all,

I don't usually venture over to this edge of the forum, but I started thinking about eldar ship design, and the differences between the current craftworld vessels, the Dark Eldar ships, the Corsair ships, and even the old space fleet designs.

Based on my own motivations, as well as some interest from someone else here on these forums, I have started looking at way to unify the look of the eldar ships (while still maintaining a uniqueness to each subgroup). Before I get too far down one path, I'd like to seek peoples' opinions about what design details they like and don't like about the various eldar ships.

I'll start.

Dislikes:

Overall, I dislike the lack of detail on the SG designed ships (craftword and dark eldar) compared to the corsair and old space fleet ships. They have fewer gothic details that would give a general sense of scale. They also seem to lack a unifying design that eldar ships should have (I think they look more like a collection of parts compared to one whole).

The craftworld ships lack the obvious weapon blisters of the corsair ships, making on-board identification difficult. I also dislike the way the engine nozzle flares out at the end of the main spar - I think a taper more like those on the cosair ships would look better. Finally, I find the lack of side sails makes the craftworld ships look 'unbalanced'. I'm not sure how I'd change the sails to fix that, but it is something that bothers me about them.

The DE ships also lack the obvious weapons of the corsairs. I also dislike the fact that the engines don't blend into the main form of the ship. Finally, the ridiculously oversized blade-wings coupled with the bulbous hull don't really remind me of Dark Eldar. I would think a more spike-shape hull would be more appropriate, or maybe something like the corsair prows, but sharpened to a point.

The sails of the corsair ships look more like fish fins than actual sails, and these sails don't match any of the concept art from before or after the BFG era. Also, the number of weapon blisters on the ship prows only has a vague correlation to the actual stats of the ships, but only sometimes.

So, what does everyone else think? If I were to do some eldar ship designs, which details should I keep, and which details should I avoid?


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:13 am 
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I always liked the look of the DE ships. In fact, I really like all of the Eldar designs. I am partial to the old Eldar ships, but perhaps that is because they are so rare nowadays. Assymmetrical ships always struck me as something the Eldar would be keen on, although I have nothing to back that up. They just don't seem like they would have symmetry hang ups, and it's not like a space ship needs to navigate through atmosphere.

Just some wandering thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:18 am 
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You should DO the designs.

However I do LIKE the GW designs for Craftworld Eldar. They have very recognizable weapon parts. It is just not located on TOP of the hull.

I actually prefer CWE style to CE style. Especially as they look a lot like the old Spacefleet models for Eldar.

The only Corsair ships which do not resemble stats to weapons on model are:

1) Hemlock, has no weapon batteries in stats.
2) Void Stalker has a launch bay & torps modelled but lacks torps in stats

The DE blade wings must be large as it are their versions of sun energy collectors (sails).

I'll add some pics to show you later.

So, as an Eldar player (both Corsair & Craftworld), I would love to see:

a) the spacefleet models redone
b) a battleship for the Craftworld Eldar
c) a battleship for the Dark Eldar
d) a light cruiser for the Dark Eldar

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:26 am 
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Moscovian wrote:
Assymmetrical ships always struck me as something the Eldar would be keen on, although I have nothing to back that up.

I have a theory on symmetry with regards to space ship design aesthetics. I call it the 90/10 rule. For a ship to look cool it has to be 90% symmetric and no more than 10% asymmetric. Examples of ships that possess the required ratio of symmetry to asymmetry include the millennium falcon and modern aircraft carriers. If you get too much asymmetry, ships just don't have any sense of direction to them. Does anyone remember the borg ship for ST:TNG from the one season finale with Lore and the rogue borg? Too much asymmetry.

Please note that the 90% and 10% values are complete BS, and the rule could be called the 80/20 rule just as easily, just as long as the meaning is conveyed - major symmetry with minor asymmetry.
blackhorizon wrote:
The DE blade wings must be large as it are their versions of sun energy collectors (sails).

My problem with that is the GW tends to create fluff to justify it's ridiculous models. The way I interpret things is that the designer thought, "hey, I know, I'll give it blade wings and that will make it look more dark eldary. Afterall, I work for GW, where putting spikes on things makes them evil, and the bigger the spikes, the evil-er they are."
I will not stoop to that level. I may give it blade wings, but they won't make the ship look like a grappling hook, and the guns and engines won't look simply tacked-on.

I'm sorry, I'm just not a big fan of the DE ships. I feel like there ought to be some relationship between them and the corsairs (at least). But anywho.


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:41 am 
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Also: CWE & CE vessels are symmetry.

Top down view of CWE fleet:
Image

Dragonship close:
Image

Side view of fleet:
Image

Look at side profile:
upper (blue) = hull
middle part (brownish) = weapon batteries (several barrels) or pulsar lances (stick out front, see Wraithships)
lower (blue again) = launch bay / torp. Different parts!
Each wraithship or Dragonship has all weapon bits in the kit. So you'll have spare. Moscovian liked that. ;)
Me too :)

Old Spacefleet Shadowhunters:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:48 pm 
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Wonderful fleet, Horizon.

I must admit I prefer the CWE look myself. The clean lines are something I favor. If you were to go for options in blisters on the top of the hull, I would say leave the Torp/Launch Bay in the keel. Then add only one or two larger blisters, at the bow or further back respectively, for the Battery/Lance option. The Mon Cal-esque look of the CE doesn't particularly appeal to me.

Some other thoughts:

CWE Dragonships have less sail area than Wraithships. More mass, same speed. Perhaps a chance for a three sail design here. I also feel the flares at the end of the engines would be better with up/down symmetry.

DE ships could be like CWE, but the prows would be similar to the prows of the older raider or new bikes.

Not sure how to differentiate CE, but they should probably be the CWE models with some 'aftermarket' bits added on.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:04 pm 
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In the background fluff for Dragonships that these come in various different designs. Different number of sails etc. That bigger Dragonships on extended duty are being referred to as "Void Dragons".

To me the Flame of Asuryan with its three sails is such a Void Dragon class Dragonship. Hence I named it such in the MMS rules. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:46 pm 
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What do you guys think of the Naiad class cruiser that is shown in the 4th Ed Eldar codex (as a sketch in the background of a craftworld skyline)?


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:16 pm 
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Hi,
dunno, never seen the image....

Gunship, right?

Google-fu was strong.

Found it.

4 sails. Impressive. Spacefleet Eldar style.

I think the rear could use some refining otherwise a cool gunship (grand cruiser/battleship ? ).

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:49 am 
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My view on the Eldar is that the ship style is very distinct, from Spacefleet through to the most recent Craftworld Eldar fleet. The core elements have pretty much stayed the same:

1) Sleek shark-like profile
2) Integrated weaponry
3) Distinctive swept back vertical element (sails / blades)

I very much like the sail element, particularly because of its resonance with two incarnations of the ships. It's relatively easy to mess about with the standard elements (different sizes and locations), but much more difficult to make them into a cool ship.

I did up some sketches a month or so back - these are the best of around 40 or so attempts which just goes to show that even the right shapes can look rubbish!

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Nice sketches, last one is a Dragonship with reversed sail (up -> down)

The biggie has potential. But is a little awkward atm.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Well, I suppose I can show my concept sketch as well.

The prow is identical in size and shape to the corsair cruiser prows.

This was a study on sail arrangement.


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:41 pm 
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Extend the back sails somewhat higher, perhaps none facing down at the back.

I like it. A lot.

Perhaps the prow could be more Corsair/Craftworld hybrid.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:23 pm 
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semajnollissor wrote:
Well, I suppose I can show my concept sketch as well.

The prow is identical in size and shape to the corsair cruiser prows.

This was a study on sail arrangement.


Nice looking - lots of sails are definitely cool - they help change the profile, and make the thing more unique.


blackhorizon wrote:
Nice sketches, last one is a Dragonship with reversed sail (up -> down)

The biggie has potential. But is a little awkward atm.


Yeah - they were literally a session of scribbling rather than developing anything in particular - turned out to be more a demonstration of how it could be quite difficult to come up with anything unique and interesting whilst also looking cool :)


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar ship design opinions
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:13 pm 
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I like the idea of the Eldar escort craft being "space-sunfish" while the Eldar capital ships are "space-schooners".

As the sails on eldar craft all appear to be similar to lateen rigs today, one might go to the Wikipedia page or sailing referances for inspiration.

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