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Pocket Battleship
Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:52 pm 
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I've begun construction on a new ship made from various spare bitz in my bitz box.
I'm using the Weapon batteries, prow and bridge form the Venegance Grand cruiser on a scratch built frame. The finished model will be about the same size as a Venegance.

Weapons-wise I'll be fitting it with the Metal Weapons battery from the Venegance + 1 Imperial Lance Battery and 2 Chaos Lances on each side (For a total of 4 Lance shots per side)
I was thinking of maybe using the stats for the Victory class Battleship for this model. What do you think?

Background wise I imagine this ship as a re-fitted and upgunned Venegance Grand Cruiser. Basically a ship with the armour and speed characteristics of the GC but the firepower of a Battleship -a Pocket Battleship.

Cheers!  :)

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chubbybob
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:01 pm 
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Quote (Warmaster Nice @ 27 2004 Nov.,18:52)
I was thinking of maybe using the stats for the Victory class Battleship for this model. What do you think?

Background wise I imagine this ship as a re-fitted and upgunned Venegance Grand Cruiser. Basically a ship with the armour and speed characteristics of the GC but the firepower of a Battleship -a Pocket Battleship.

Cheers! ?:)

Hi
 I found this post quite interesting as I too had my own take on pocket battleships a few years back. I should warn you I took a lot of stick on the BFG group for the power of these models but hell a pocket battleship has LOTS of firepower.  heheheh. Here's my take on the idea.

http://www.angelfire.com/games4/chubbyb ... eships.htm

Bob DeAngelis
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stormseer
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:13 pm 
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Cool stuff, I look forward to seeing what you come up with! :)

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dysartes
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:25 am 
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Nice ships there, chubbybob

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:39 am 
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Ship is almost finished. Just need to add some detail to the keel and rear section and engines. I must say that I'm quite happy with the way it is turning out: It more or less have the profile of a Venegance but sturdier looking and with a different middle section. I'm trying to ger more of an early Imperial/late Chaos design incorporated into the model by using a few spare chaos bits here and there. I'll post a few piccies once it is completely finished.

Bob: Love the ships! If you don't mind I think I'll nick some of your stats as a basis for my own ship.

Cheers! ?:)

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wargame_insomniac
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:12 pm 
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Hi Bob

I remember well the chats we had on the yahoo group.

2 of my favourite ships classes are pocket battleships and battlecruisers. One with weapons and armour of a battleship on the hull of a cruiser (and the speed of a defence monitor) and the other with weapons of battleship and speed of a cruiser (and the armour of an escort).

I happened to be looking at my old conversions earlier today as I was spending the weekend sorting out old figures in the wardrobe. Never got around to painting them. After the amount of grief I took on the yahoo group for designing new "cheese" classes of ship I lost interest in BFG for a while.

For me the stats were secondary - I just wanted the chance to field some ships that I had messed around converting.

Any way Warmaster Nice- look forward to pics with interest. Did you take any pics before painting? Sometimes its easier to undertsnad how conversions were done if you see them in the bare lead first. If not then just seeing the finished ship would be cool.


Cheers

James

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:20 pm 
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Even more great input WI. I hadn't bothered checking out the Yahoo group (can be a bit oof a pain to brrowse I think) but it sounds very interesting.
I haven't quite finished the ship but I might as well snap a pic and post it in the Dry Dock section. Stay tuned later tonight.

Cheers! :)

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chubbybob
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:11 pm 
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Quote (wargame_insomniac @ 28 2004 Nov.,17:12)
Hi Bob

I remember well the chats we had on the yahoo group.

2 of my favourite ships classes are pocket battleships and battlecruisers. One with weapons and armour of a battleship on the hull of a cruiser (and the speed of a defence monitor) and the other with weapons of battleship and speed of a cruiser (and the armour of an escort).
James

James is that James as in James Symmons?? Didn't your fast pocket battleship idea using a retribution prow inspire this mars conversion??

http://www.angelfire.com/games4/chubbyb ... a_ship.htm

It's still one of my favourites. Afraid I too have been out of the hobby for a long while but mine was cancer not enthusiam.
:L :D  :D
Needless to say I have it beat and have returned.
 :laugh:  :laugh:

Bob DeAngelis
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chubbybob
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:19 pm 
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Quote (Warmaster Nice @ 28 2004 Nov.,17:20)
I hadn't bothered checking out the Yahoo group (can be a bit oof a pain to brrowse I think) but it sounds very interesting.

The yahoo group has been in existence since the first days of BFG and has even now 1500 members. Its photo group ie  BFG-FPC BFG-ListPics BFG-ListPics2 have some of the most stunning collections of paint jobs and conversions around. The group has probably been one of the most influential E users groups to influence a game of any sort. I still think it helped "save" the game when it was all but withdrawn. Indeed two of its members are now on the rules board. The list has been less active of late and I believe that the GW forum will in time replace it as the most active. However there will still be a place for it in supplying a source of non GW produced material available for the game. Long may it and other independant groups such as this one survive.

Bob DeAngelis
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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:37 pm 
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Posted a pic in the dry dock section here.
I'm afraid I forgot to re-size it so it's a bit big (file size has been reduced though).
Enjoy!:)

Bob: I have to check out thee other groups as well. So far I've only been browsing the main BFG group. The ListPics groups sounds awsome. I have too check them out. :cool:

Cheers! :)

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wargame_insomniac
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:35 pm 
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Quote (chubbybob @ 28 2004 Nov.,18:11)
James is that James as in James Symmons?? Didn't your fast pocket battleship idea using a retribution prow inspire this mars conversion??

http://www.angelfire.com/games4/chubbyb ... a_ship.htm

It's still one of my favourites. Afraid I too have been out of the hobby for a long while but mine was cancer not enthusiam.
:L :D ?:D
Needless to say I have it beat and have returned.
?:laugh: ?:laugh:

Bob DeAngelis

There goes my anonymity!  :blush:
Yes indeed- that's me- guilty as charged.

I enjoyed those discussions we used to have on yahoo BFG group. I just liked discussing cool ideas for building ships but too many people thought it was an excuse to build an uber cheese-naught.

I followed the link to your pic. Your one looks great- its finished for start! But you were always better modeller and painter than me.

My attempt was more of an up-gunned Overlord. Used Retribution prow with cruiser superstructure. My one was longer and sleeker. I had wanted it to be a true battlecruiser- fast with same HP and shield as normal cruiser but broadside firepower of Retribution.

Wish I could get the ship out and maybe start belated paint job, but unfortunately she is in storage, along with most of my gaming stuff, except for my Chaos BFG fleet and some more recent purchases. I need to move house soon so that I can be re-united with all my toys!
:blues:
Good catching up.

You have PM btw.

Cheers

James

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:13 pm 
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I just liked discussing cool ideas for building ships but too many people thought it was an excuse to build an uber cheese-naught.


LOL! :D  I know what you mean: I just like to build stuff that I think looks cool. Then later I have to go through all the trouble of figuring out some rules for the ship. My IMS Jutland is a good examle of a ship which I think looks nice but probaly is horrible to play (I've only done a minor bit of play testing so far)

Cheers! :)

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:10 pm 
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Allright: Work is continuing on the second Pocket battleship. Where the first one had some pretty serious Lance armament, this second ship is heavier on the gun batteries.
Rules wise I was thinking some kind of light equivalents to the Apocalypse and Retribution.
To make the ships rather fragile I was thinking of removing the 6+ frontal save (the ships are using Chaos and Venegance prows anyway) and perhapps reducing the rear save to 4+ to make them really risky tojust throw in anywhere??? I don't know what speed they should have... 20 cm? After all they're supposed to be rather old designs on par with the Chaos cruisers.

Weapons configurationns:

Ship1:
3 Turrets.
Nova Cannon, 4x60 cm Lance Batteries each side, str.6 60 cm batteries each side, Dorsal weapon or Lance battery (relatively short range)???

Ship 2:
3 Turrets.
L/R str 10 60 cm Weapons batteries, L/R 2x30cm Lance shots, Prow str 6 or 9 torpedoes, Dorsal Weapons battery str. 4, 45 or 60 cm???

I don't know if ship 2 should have shorter range weappons batteries to differentiate it more from ship 1. On the other hand it does place the ship nicely in between the Retribution and Overlord.

Haven't calculated the points cost yet but I reckon some 300-ish...

What do you think?

Cheers! :)

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Xavi
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:06 pm 
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Quote (Warmaster Nice @ 03 2004 Dec.,15:10)
Ship1:
3 Turrets.
Nova Cannon, 4x60 cm Lance Batteries each side, str.6 60 cm batteries each side, Dorsal weapon or Lance battery (relatively short range)???


I would go the other way around. Dorsals with 60 cm, while side lances would be at 45cm or so. It is quite a firepower what you have there!!! Compared with the retribution battleship you have few things to envy from it. Maybe making it something like that (read below?

- NC
- 2/60 cm dorsal lances
- 2/45 cm lances per side [NOTE: this is my main concern: 4 lances per side is quite heavy when coupled with dorsal lances...]
- 8/60 WB per side

If you want to differentiate them, maybe make the lances 60 cm and the WB 45 cm? :)

Quote (Warmaster Nice @ 03 2004 Dec.,15:10)

Ship 2:
3 Turrets.
- L/R str 10 60 cm Weapons batteries, L/R
- 2x30cm Lance shots,
- Prow str 6 or 9 torpedoes,
- Dorsal Weapons battery str. 4, 45 or 60 cm???

I don't know if ship 2 should have shorter range weappons batteries to differentiate it more from ship 1. On the other hand it does place the ship nicely in between the Retribution and Overlord


I woudn't change this one a lot. Maybe increasing the lances range to 45 cm and remove the dorsal WB. Otherwise you end up wioth a side firepower that might surpass that of a Retribution. Remember that neither the retribution nor the overlord have side lances, only dorsal ones. WB 10/60 pr side and 3 dorsal lances is the intermediate step between the 2 IMO, not adding lances to the sides.

I mised the pictures for your model, so I might be analizing it in game terms instead of model terms, though. Feel free to ignore this :D

Regards,

Xavi

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Pocket Battleship
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:47 pm 
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Here's pics of the two ships.



This is the Gunship. I imagine it as a re-fitted Repulsive Grand Cruiser. (The prow still needs some detailing and the GS weapon batteries will be replaced with plastic ones once I get some more spures.)
Perhaps reduce the range of the Weapon Batteris to make a ship more similar to the Avenger class Grand Cruiser? However if this is combined with the low armour save I was considering for Pocket Battleships this may make the ship too vulnerable???



This is the Lance variant. This one is thought as a refitted Venegance Grand Cruiser.
I'd like to have the str. 4 Lances on each side for the WYSIWYG but it is possible that the dorsal armament could be changed to weapon batteries. Perhaps give the dorsal batteries strength 4 and the side mounted batteries strength 4 also?

Cheers!  :)

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