Tactical Command
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BFG: WWI
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1622		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Mojarn Piett [ Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
Lately I have once again been plagued by visions of game conversion. BFG has been called "WWI in space" so many times I started to give the idea some thought.

Has anybody been thinking about using BFG to fight WWI sea battles? I am no navy expert (or even gifted amateur) but it seems to me that the basic mechanics would require little (if any) modification. Of course, WWI ships don't have shields or lances and there are next to no aircraft but other than that the only problem would be to model the ships with reasonable accuracy plus the more limited Command control WWI ships had.

Any thoughts? Does the idea of "Grand Fleet Gothic" hold any water?  :;):
Author:  Justiniel [ Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
Hmmm, the Battle of Jutland, hundreds of ships, fantastic.....want the battle report already.
Torpedoes would fit, submarines might be trickier, is there anything in BFG that would fit? (I'm not a player, at least not at the time of writing) Maybe the plane rules could be altered to reflect sub action apart from those planes as spotters, oh and they launched torpedoes too, I've just remembered the Swordfish.
Author:  stormseer [ Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
The Swordfish was a WW2 plane, was it not?
-If I remember rightly, a flight from the Ark Royal destroyed the Bismark's steering gear with torpedoes before it was hunted down and sunk...

interesting idea anyway Mojarn... :)
Author:  Justiniel [ Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
[quote="stormseer,02 2004 July,10:22"]The Swordfish was a WW2 plane, was it not?]
Darn it, you're right, entered service in 1936, it was the bi-plane bit that threw me.
So, it would have been the Sopwith something or other amongst a couple of others.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
As far as I can think about it, Gothic would not require a serious change it mechanics - it being designed as a carrier-light, 2D space game. The Swordfish is simply a torpedo-bomber, I guess. I think that the biggest problem that you would have would be to covert the ship stats across.

The closest thing that Gothic has to a submarine is the Tau Warden (I think that is the name), or the Dark Eldar mimic engines.

I think that this would work well as a game, but would not be very realistic or true to history. To get there, you would need to add a couple of spoonfuls of detail.
Author:  vanvlak [ Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
One problem here - with aircraft - in the WW1 fleet actions, aircraft were only used as spotters for the fleet; the first aircraft tenders and carriers had appeared by 1918, by I know of no fleet action in which aircraft played a part beyond spotting.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
Yep, Swordfish from the Ark Royal damaged the Bismarck.  And was not in service until '36, so it wasn't around in WWI. And I know of no WWI sea battles where aircraft did more than spot.        Good job boyz ... you did your homework !  I played AH's Jutland on my friend's living room floor when most of you were in diapers ! :;):
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
I think it would work! :D

Shalom,

Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  Mojarn Piett [ Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
Submarines I had forgot about. But were subs used in WWI (or even WWII) sea battles at all? Weren't they used just to prowl shipping lanes to sink enemy supply ships plus any possible targets of opportunity?

I'd think that coordination with surface forces would have been impossible.

RE: C/S: You are right, the emphasis would definitely be on the "game" as opposed to "simulation". However, fast and fun rules plus the chance to see loads of battleships on board is just too tempting.  :;):

Does anybody happen to have "Jane's fighting ships of WWI"?
Author:  vanvlak [ Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
"Does anybody happen to have "Jane's fighting ships of WWI"? "
Yes.
Author:  Mojarn Piett [ Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
Quote (vanvlak @ 05 2004 July,09:22)
"Does anybody happen to have "Jane's fighting ships of WWI"? "
Yes.

Good. Then you have the reference to comment the ship profiles (possibly) tossed around in here.  :;):

BTW, as a naval non-expert I have thought about the following generalisations of ship armor and hits:

Battleships: Armor 5 to 6; 10 to 12 hits.
Battlecruiser: armor 4 to 5; 8 to 10 hits.

Then it goes tricky; IIRC in WWI there was a ship class called "armored cruiser" which was roughly comparable to heavy cruiser. If so (feel free to correct) then it would  have the same armor range as battlecruiser but 6 to 8 hits. (?)

Light cruiser: Armor 3 to 4, 4 to 5 hits.

Destroyer: Armor 3, 2 to 3 hits.

Torpedo boat: Armor 2 (but there is a shift in the ordnance table to take into account the difficulty to hit such a small target). 1 hit.

Comment away. As I said, I'm no expert. I just love battleships.  :;):
Author:  Legion 4 [ Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
Yes, subs did prowl the seas looking for merchants and warships.  But I believe they worked independently for the most part, and didn't have the commo capabilities like WWII U-boats.  And the "CA" is an armored or heavy cruiser and the "CL" is a light cruiser, IIRC.  However, I am no expert, either ... and TAS is "out to sea" !  :;):
Author:  vanvlak [ Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
Hi Mojarn, L4, and everyone,
Mojarn, I'll dig the book out this evening and see what I can come up with - the prob. is I'm no BFG expert, so I'll find the armour in inches of steel plate, and we'll work from there. Some vessels, such as the large cruisers, had local deficiencies - the shaft from the gun turrets to the magazine had insufficient protection, so that a hit on a turret could lead to a ship blowing up - the British lost 3 of these ships in the battle of Jutland, and almost a fourth. The Germans had almost lost a battleship for the same reason in an earlier battle, and had fitted baffles to the shafts to prevent this. This would have to be reflected in the stats e.g. by having a low number of hits. ???
Author:  Mojarn Piett [ Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
Interesting tidbit Vanvlak, thanks. Another possibility would be to have an increased chance of the ship blowing up in the critical hit table.

Also, IIRC, the Germans had better optics in their ships and so had better chances to-hit than the British but most of their guns were smaller and did less damage.
Author:  vanvlak [ Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  BFG: WWI
Yup - correct, Mojarn, and the damage table suggestion sounds better than mine. :)
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