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Question about old space fleet ships.

 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 10:30 pm 
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Ok yous guys, listen up. I need your help in my trying to classify the old Space Fleet's ship classes.

The Ironclad is slightly shorter than the Dauntless light cruiser and a smidge wider in places. Their mass is probably pretty close.

The old Firestorm is roughly the same length as the new forstorm with a little more mass. I definately looks like a heavier ship. But not by much.

The old Cobras are smaller than the new Cobras. Definatly a lighter ship.

So, the question becomes, do I reclassify the ships or do I leave them as they were? Being as they were from a different time and all. Let me know what you think.

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 10:50 pm 
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Signius; my thoughts are to count them as completely different ships as they are on the whole utterly different models, have a look around on the net for some stat lists (I'm pretty sure I've seen something of the sort somewhere), or have a bash at making up your own....

It would of course be easier to have them "count as" existing ships, but hey, thats a little lazy!! :;):  hehe...


I will also have a look round to see if I can find some pictures of the ships, I believe there may be some on Stuff Of Legends.... Watch this space....

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 11:11 pm 
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Here is a link to the Imperial Spacefleet range.... Interesting stuff, but the newer BFG models seem more "realsitic" if that is possible in 40k.... :p

The Eldar and Tyranids might interest people too...... :D

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 12:06 am 
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Hmmm...maybe I wasn't being clear. I have the ships already and I intend to make stats for them. I was giving size and mass comparisons so you guys could help me firgure out in which class to place them. I mean the old cobra was a destroyer, same as the new one. However, The old cobra is alot smaller than the new one. So, is it still a destroyer or not? How much mass and weponry does a ship require inorder to change it's class?

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 12:18 am 
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:o ......Ah, I see your meaning now......

Having a look at those Cobras, they do look pretty tiny, yeah, but I still think they classify as Destroyers- albeit very weak ones- probably just having a L/F/R 2 battery or similar...

The Ironclad- called a battleship originally, but it looks far too small for that, I would just make it a LC, like the Dauntless...

The Firestorm can become an escort I reckon- looks a little small to be a cruiser!! :D

-Basically, I think I would change all SpaceFleet ships to what their size looks like they are- I would probably rename them too, like was done for the Eldar SF ships article, here on Epic40k.co.uk....

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 12:28 am 
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Yeah, they definately need a renaming. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 12:52 am 
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Personally I use the Emperer as a Hawking Class Exploration Cruiser.  If you make any rules for the other please let me know.

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 5:28 pm 
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I don't play SF/BFG, but had many SF ships.  I sold the Imperial & Eldar to guys all over the world. I kept the 'Nids for Epic. Harridan variants, Bio-Tanks, Mysetic Spores and even terrain.  But Signius, I'd re-classify the old SF ships, some of the smaller ships, could be gun boats or frigates ... ?

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 6:42 pm 
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I was going to make the old cobra a frigate until my eyes were opened to the fact that the new cobra is a frigate. So, I will probably make it a gunboat/ship. Does anyone know why GW mixed up the destroyer and frigate classes? Was it intentional? Anyway, the ironclad should be a light cruiser. Although, it's role in the fleet has not been assigned. The Firestorms are not yet assigned yet either. I will have to make it a destroyer if I make the old cobra a frigate or gunboat. Plus, if I get any of the old gothics I have been looking for then, I would have three ships with a similar silhouette. They should all serve a similar role. What do you think?

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 4:49 am 
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G/W plays fast & loose with military terms, most of them, would not know a Destroyer from a row boat, (or an MBT, IFV or APC, for that matter). It's just a game with bright shiny things, for most of them. ?In the real world, in most cases, there is more than one class or variant of a ship type. ?This is especailly true in WWII. So not all Destroyers would be the same type (model) ship. ?A navy (or space fleet), could have 3 or more classes of Destroyer, with the same role, for example. ?The same could be said for Cruisers, Battle Ships, etc.

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 5:58 am 
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Yeah, I know that. It's just I need to figure out a system that works. Which brings us back to my previous question. How much mass and weponry does a ship require inorder to change it's class?

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 6:19 am 
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Well, let's look at the general classes we are talking about. Frigate (FG), Escort Destroyer (DE), Destroyer (DD), Light Cruiser (CL), Armored/Heavy Cruiser (CA), Battle Cruiser (BC) and Battle Ship (BB).  Generally speaking size and displacement/weight makes the difference between classes. With  each type ship class comes an increase in fire power, armor etc. to the next class. In some cases only an increase of a 1/4 to 1/3, from say a CL to a CA ...

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:48 pm 
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Hi Signius,

I've got a copy of the Smotherman Formula which I can PM you if you like.  It may help slightly.

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:51 pm 
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Quote (Legion 4 @ 02 2003 June,15:19)
Generally speaking size and displacement/weight makes the difference between classes. With ?each type ship class comes an increase in fire power, armor etc. to the next class.

Ship classes used to be based predominantly on displacement, now its more about capability.  Often also, ships are classes lower than they are for political reasons (it sounds less aggressive to buy destroyers instead of cruisers).

So there is no set definitive scale or table to say this is a cruiser this is a frigate, just a relative comparison

The fact hat BFG has it around the wrong way with repect to the destroyers being smaller than frigates just confuses the issue more.

BTW the smaller vessels fit nicely into the corvette niche- escort vessels smaller than frigates

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 Post subject: Question about old space fleet ships.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:01 am 
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You are again correct, Tas, but you are a Naval Officer, so it's your business to know ! :D  Good point about the Corvette, but the guys at G/W probably think it's a Sports Car ! :laugh:

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