What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? |
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Jackhammer
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG?  Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:45 pm |
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| Quote (primarch @ 30 2003 July,18:42) | Hi!
I wonder why there is such a tendency for sci-fi backgrounds to make ships so huge?
Primarch |
To inspire awe in their readers/viewers/etc? To try and set the situation as far removed from normal as they can 'realistically' get? In the 40K Imperial sense maybe its to make the technology seem powerful and advanced, while still giving it a feeling of gothic foreboding, the aura of impenetrable lost technology and a sense of the archaic?
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primarch
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 12:19 am |
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Hi!
Perhaps you are right, they do want to capture that "man-o-war" feel as well, so I suppose big is the way to go. I visualize space combat more in the "galactica" model, where the big ships are just space aircraft carriers, the fighter being the real killer.
Primarch
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Tas
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:24 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 31 2003 July,09:19) | | I visualize space combat more in the "galactica" model, where the big ships are just space aircraft carriers, the fighter being the real killer. |
As a professional Destroyer driver I have the opposite view! 
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Tas
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:48 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 30 2003 July,18:42) | Hi!
I wonder why there is such a tendency for sci-fi backgrounds to make ships so huge?
Is it even logical from a space dynamics point of view to make them like this?
Imagine the inertia of a kilometer and a half ship!
Primarch |
Well, it looks good for sure and I think that's what counts in the movie business. The game business just built upon established images.
I must say I am a big fan of the huge spaceships. Whoever designed the Imperial Star Destroyer gets a respectful bow from my direction. The scene I like most in all of the Star Wars films is the one in "The Empire Strikes Back" where they show the Death's Head squadron (and especially the Super Star Destroyer!) for the first time.
Oops, I think I just posted my 100th message. 
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Xavi
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:13 am |
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I don't know if that is an accurate system, but in the same way that each hit point in a ship is given to be around 10,000 dudes (IIRC) why not make it a Km for every hit point as well? So escorts are 1 km, cruisers are 6-8 km and flagships should be around 12 km. Looks good enough to me and it is easy to remember
That is if you are really worried by that background problem, that is  
On the thing of big stuff in BFG, well, it is exactly as posted by Jackhammer IMHO. To get the reader thinking "oh, man, what a darn big ship!" and get inspired, horrifyed and satisfied at the same time Also, take in mind the numbers used in most 40k background, a crusade being a thousand million IG soldiers and all that stuff (gaunt's ghost novels) and other stuff like that. in a galactic level GW likes big numbers. It is quite odd, but the only small numbers here are about the size of the SM chapters and legions. IMO they lost a zero or 2 somewhere when designing the chapters. Even for a marine chapter 1000 is nothing while 10,000 would make a good elite rapid strike division instead of a group of bully dudes going around in flashy armor. And being shot down as a consequence. I don't mind the fluff here, but 1000 dudes are not a real force, be them SM or not given the weapons allowance in 40k.
Sorry about that, I partially highjacked the thread...
*SM rant mode off*
Regards,
Xavi.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:45 pm |
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Fluff runs G/W when it's convenient. Huge numbers are part of the "story line". Tas being a sailor and I being a former "Grunt" know a lot of times what G/W writes or produces is sometimes unreasonable or even illogical - but we can use the tired excuse that ... well ... it's Sci-fi !  Believe me, 1000 men (equal to about a Battalion) is more of light strike force then 10,000 men (equal to a small Division). You got to move them and supply them (did both as a staff officer, a long, long time ago) ... do the math ... Plus a 1000 quality troops are worth more then 10,000 2nd teamers ! 1000 US,UK or Aussie Grunts are more combat effective than 10,000 Iraqi Republican Guard ... 
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Xavi
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:12 pm |
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Yup, but you don't conquer a PLANET with 1000 dudes, no matter how powerful they are. Marines usually face "small resistences " of around 15000 dudes. That is a little bit too much for "a couple casualties" in the marine side. It is the powercreep effects basically "wer are the best so I kill thousands with mi hankerchief. LOL. Well, I still think 1000 is to small to be "realistic", but 10k would be a strike force, in 40k numbers. At least I think so.
Logistics are not that important when you have computers stuffed in the brains of servitors and all that
In fact marine legfions NEVER have logictic problems in the fluff, even if they should. You never know where they get the resources from, heh
Regards,
Xavi
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Legion 4
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:22 am |
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No probably not, it would take more than 1000 Elite troops to conquer most planets. But even in the fluff you see Imperial forces combined, ie. SM & IG units and in my day, even the Squats. And we see the same thing going on in Iraq and Afghanistan - Army, Marines etc., operating in the same theater. As far as logistics go, the battles (Epic & 40K) are too short to be effected by supply, but fluff is still fluff and it does not really matter, in the short term.
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Xavi
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:05 am |
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Well, logisitics *DO* matter if you are trying to create a chapter like me that basically has a logistics problem to be a fully operative force, heh
Regards,
Xavi
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Legion 4
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 3:53 pm |
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Yes, as I said, in over 10 years as an Infantry Officer from '79-'90, I had served in a number of staff positions (as well as an Air Assault Platoon Leader and Mech Company Commander
), including Air Operations, Logistics and Maintenance Officer. So I well know that. ?A large percentage of troops in a Division are in Support units, in some cases 50%.
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Xavi
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:32 pm |
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LOl. Well, I think we are agreeing once and over again My problem is not making you notice that since I already knew that you were aware of the fact. The problem is introducing it into WH40k fluff, where logistics are buit a smallish part of the fluff and most of the time they are left as "secondary stuff" in the background information, as if they weren't important or something. My fluff revolves around a chapter being screwed in that fuield, and I find it difficult to orchestrate their clawing resources in a realistic way. that was what I was trying to say I wholeheartedly agree with you there.
health and a lot of sixes,
Xavi
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Legion 4
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:45 pm |
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Yes, I believe we have agreed all along, my point was that a 1000 Elite Troopers, ("like my Battalion in the 101, he said proudly"  ! ), can strike very quickly and be very effective, (like SMs). But that being said, historically "cut off" units have used enemy equipment. We were trained to use USSR small arms. And if you look at the news footage from the fronts, you'll sometimes see Special Ops troopers ( Green Berets, SAS, etc.,) using other than US/UK weapons, for many reasons. That might be sometihng to think about ...
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Xavi
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:06 pm |
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Legion 4
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:10 pm |
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Yes, I remember an old 40K Scout model having a shuriken ! So you have alot of options ...
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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primarch
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Post subject: What Are the Ship Lengths in BFG? Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:55 pm |
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Hi!
I remember seeing Ork's with lasguns, so I think it nice to mix and match technologies. A bolter may be standard issue for a marine, but whats to stop one from modelling a squad with shurikens or even lasguns?
It depends how much you follow the "official" Background. I tend to use it more as a guideline than follow it to the letter.
Primarch
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