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Boarding

 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:00 am 
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Hi, below I present alternate rules for boarding operations.  I created these rules because I did not like the current way in which they work, more of a drive-by slap than a desparate action between two ships locked in mortal combat (or something like that.)  

Anyways I have tried this in a few very small battles of SM vs Orks.  I have also tested it, using proxies and just against myself using IG and Chaos.  I like the results so far, hopefully I can get a decent sized game together soon and see how it plays out.

This is intended to replace the entire page 34.

Any comments, suggestions, or criticisms are welcome.

Thanks,

Boarding-

A ship or ships may attempt to board an enemy ship if at the end of the controlling players turn, before damage control has been attempted or blast markers removed, the ships bases are touching.  A boarding action must be declared during the movement phase.  After the action is declared and the ships bases are touching the ships are allowed to fire at each other using half their firepower.  If this is a multiship boarding action the defending ship is allowed to fire on the first ship to contact it in each of it's fire arcs.  Note: weapons with multiple fire arcs may only fire in one of them.  The weapons use the closing column of the weapon battery table and are fired at half strength rounding down.  No other modifiers are applied.

In the end phase before blast markers are removed the boarding action is resolved.  Each player adds up all remaining hit points on all participating ships.  This number is divided by 2 and rounded up.  This is the boarding value.  Note: Tyranids do not divide by 2 to determine this number.  To this is then added the numbers from the following table.
+1 for chaos/orks
+2 for SM/ Tyranids
-1 for Tau (note: Tau only not their allies)
-1 if enemy is Necron
+1 for chaos ships with a CSM crew
+1 for chaos ships with mark of Khorne
-1 if enemy chaos ship has a mark of Nurgle
+2 if enemy ship is crippled
+1 if enemy is on special orders
+1 is own boarding value is greater than the enemy*
+2 is own boarding value is twice or more than the enemy*
+3 is own boarding value is three times or more than the enemy*
+4 is own boarding value is four times or more than the enemy*
(*-only one of these values is applied.)

During the first round of the boarding action the defending player may reduce the number of dice rolled by the attacker by one for every two turrets on the defending ship.  This modifier may be applied to each attacking ships boarding value if this is a multiship boarding action.

The final boarding value, after modification, determines the number of dice each player can roll.  Each dice that rolls a 4, 5, or a 6 scores a 'hit' on the opposing ship.  The player with the highest number of hits is the winner with the difference between the scores being the amount of damage that the loser receives.  This damage is distibuted evenly by the controlling player.

Each point of damage may cause a critical hit on a roll of 5+, additionally an extra critical hit may be caused on either ship.  Roll a dice for each ship on the following table to determine if the ship receives a critical hit.

difference winner looser
0   +5   +5
1   +5   +5
2   +5   +4
3   +6   +3
4   +6   +2
5 +          none auto

If the difference in scores is 0 or the defending player wins then the ships are separated by 1 cm and continue moving normally in the following turns, the defenders successfully defended their ship.  If the attacking player wins then the ships remain in contact until the end phase of the following players turn when the boarding action shall be fought again.  After the first round of the boarding action only a winning player may decide to separate the ships, a score of a 0 does not separate them.  While the ships are locked together they drift 2d6cm in a random direction at the beginning of each players movement phase, as the various ships engines and thrusters fight each other.  If a ship with a larger movement class is boarded or is boarding a smaller ship (for example a battleship boarding a cruiser) then the larger ship moves at half speed but otherwise moves normally, no drifting occurs.  

While the ships are locked together neither side may fire upon either ship as the risk of hitting friendlies is too great.  Note: Orks ignore this rule but must pass a leadership test to not hit their own ships.  New ships may attempt to enter the boarding action at any time, but after the first round no ships are allowed to fire upon each other.  In a multiship boarding operation all ships must disengage or none can.  Assault boats may be launched by nearby ships, turrets work as normal but instead of causing a critical hit they add +1 to the boarding value of the following boarding combat phase.

If either ship is reduced to 0 damage as a result of the boarding action results it is reduced to a drifting hulk, too many of the crew have been killed or wounded for it to continue normal operations.  If the ship is reduced to 0 damage as a result of a critical roll on the catastrophic damage table.

^2

(edit: made initially boarding more difficult for the attacker, added in drifting hulk result for being reduced to 0 damage and added extra racial boarding modifiers)






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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:59 am 
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Good attempt!

Some remarks/questions:

The final boarding value, after modification, determines the number of dice each player can roll.  Both players roll for a 4+ and compare scores.  The player with the highest score is the winner with the difference between the scores being the amount of damage that the loser receives.  This damage is distibuted evenly by the controlling player.


Mainly about above remark.
Lets say I board with a Chaos Cruiser. 8 Hitpoints, boarding value is 4. + 1 for Chaos, +1 enemy on SO.
The enemy is a 8 HP IN cruiser, value of 4, +1 for IN.

Chaos gets 6 dice & In gets 5 dice. Then you say players roll for a 4+, compare highest result. Chaos rolls 1,2,3,3,5,6 IN rolls 2,2,3,4,6. Both vessels rolled a 6, who has won in this case? Draw?

Wouldn't it be better to add all dice together and compare that result? Chaos gets
20 and IN gets 17. A difference of 3. Roll that many times on crit hit table or 3 damage.

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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:04 am 
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I meant that each ship would roll their dice and each dice that is 4 or greater counts as a hit.  Using your example both the Chaos and IN would have gotten two hits.  This would be a draw, but for different reasons.  

As another example say an IN cruiser attacks a chaos ship the IN cruiser gets 4 dice while the Chaos ship gets 4 +1 for being chaos.  The IN gets a 4, 3, 5, 6 and the chaos gets a 1, 2, 3, 4, 1.  The IN would get 3 'hits' against the chaos while the chaos ship would only get in 1 'hit'.  With a difference of 2 the IN would win and the chaos ship would recieve 2 damage.  The IN ship would then get to decide to continue the boarding operation or not.

I shall have to reword that, I didn't consider your interpretation.  Thanks.

Ok, edited.  I really should have proof read this to determine if it made any sense to anyone but me.  
:p
^2






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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:50 pm 
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One other note: They should not drift in a random direction. Realistically you would have to keep in mind the direction, speed, and mass of each vessel, but since thats a pain, I would say this:

If ships are locked in combat, they drift 2d6 cm each movement phase in the direction the ship that would normally move in this phase is facing. Choose one ship if multiple are involved in the combat. Escorts cannot be used to do this if there are any capital ships in the battle (even if escorts are your only ships, then it moves in the direction of the capital ship)

Also, turrets should have some kind of effect, perhaps each turret adds +1 to the effective hit points of the ship when calculating boarding value.

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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:56 am 
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Actually as far as drifting goes I imagined it as the ships thrusters fighting each other.  Also I did try and come up with simple rules for the direction of travel but it quickly became too complicated and not worth it since I'm mostly just trying to not have the ships just sitting in space.

As far as the turrets are concerned I decided to leave them out because, for one, they would not be strong enough to damage the opposing ship.  Secondly I feel that the ships would be too close for the turrets to have much effect.  Finally, carriers (which I believe should be more vulnerable to boarding actions due to their role in a battle, not being front line ships) tend to have larger numbers of turrets.

Anyways my above comments on turrets are not totally convincing and I would like to hear why you think that they would add more to the battle.

Thanks for the comments,

^2


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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:15 am 
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I still don't see the need for changes in the Boarding Rules. It's not like it's broken. ???


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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:53 am 
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Yes, but I don't think that the current rules are very interesting.  If the boarding values are close there is usually very little damage done to either ship and the ship immediately move off on the next turn.  The only time it really gets interesting with the current rules is if the first round is a draw.  The thing that I most wanted to do with these rules was to allow situations where ships that are near each other in hull strength could attempt to board one another with some hope that something good could come of it.  

Anyways, this is just an attempt to better model how a boarding operation would work, not as a replacement for broken rules.

^2


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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:30 am 
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Fine but I don't see how boarding parties can score that much potential hits on ships which are 3-5 km long, short of carrying nukes (that's fluff-wise). In game terms, how can a boarding party, which isn't really composed of a lot of men, roll so many attempts at damaging a ship (not a system in the ship) directly. If you read Execution Hour, boarding people just bring what they can carry, which are usually close combat weapons. What your proposal tells me, however, is that boarding is more efficient than lances.

Now if you had said they roll that many dice on the crit table then I would be more partial to your proposal and it would also eliminate the need of having to roll on the crit table afterwards making things more simpler and interesting. But then this would conflict with the Hit & Run rules. However, we can say that Boarding is a much more efficient method than H&R (sort of like WBs and Lances but on a more personal level). EDIT: I just had a thought, what if instead of rolling only D6 as in H&R action, you roll 2D6. Now THAT would make things interesting. You can actually get a Bulkhead collapse! Heh!  :laugh:






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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:50 pm 
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Admiral, I do think boarding is broken in the game. When we play over here, no one has ever boarded!

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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:05 pm 
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Just because no one has used boarding doesn't mean it's broken. You can't really justify it as such when you haven't tried it yet.  Try it out first and after a couple of trials, then figure out if it is broken or not.

Also, you have to ask yourselves why no one has tried to board another ship. It could be because shooting at a target is much more efficient  or that you prefer H&R so as not to risk damage to your own ship or that ramming is so much more fun.


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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:24 am 
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Well, as to how boarding parties score that many hits, the reasons are two-fold.

1) Hits =!= hull integrity.  Hits == Crew
2) They aren't boarding parties per se. It's more like half the crew.

So if we can say there are approximately 1000 people per hit (think its around there, would love to hear actual stated figures), a boarding action is bigger than many games of Epic (which isn't as disgusting as it sounds, as I believe it has been stated that a Lunar would be 15 meters long in epic scale). Damage occurs because people are being butchered, not because gigantic holes are being blasted into the ships. Turrets work in boarding actions not because they can harm the other ship, it's because they are slaughtering lifeboats, shuttlecraft, boarding tubes, personal flight suits, whatever is getting the personel to the target vessel. Thats why only defenders may use turrets in a boarding action, the attacker can't kill craft that aren't coming to his ship.

That's the main reason I don't like the current boarding rules. People should die en masse, on both sides. I'll come up with rules of my own in the near future.

All that said, I do like your rules and may test them out in the potentially near future.

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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:19 am 
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So if the people are the ones being butchered, how does thios translate to direct damage to a ship? The number of people killed won't kill the ship. Direct damage to a ship will. If you want to represent the number of people being butchered on both sides, then really, it should be a lowering of the Ld, not a lowering of the ship's damage points.

In this manner, I would also prefer saying crits are caused instead of direct damage. Roll 2D6-2 on the Crit table for every point you get based on the proposed house rule here. As usual, race bonuses (like SMs getting +1) apply. As usual 1s are auto failures.


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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:12 am 
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The current boarding mechanic supports it doing damage to a ship and I agree with Magus that the damage mostly represents killing the crew, though im sure that the damage would be significant anyways, just not hull damage.  The current rules support this by making any ship reduced to 0 damage by boarding is turned into a drifting hulk.  This is something which I forgot to include in the rules.

Magus as far as the turrets go I feel that the ships would be too close together so that the turrets would not have time to react before the various boarding devices got too close to the hull to target.  Also as the rounds of combat progress beyond the first one who the attacker and who the defender is can become muddled.  I also left out blast markers causing any modification as I did not believe that the effect of their presence would be big enough to matter.  Though ships with particularly large numbers of turrets (4 or greater) might be another matter.

Also origionally I could not come up with rules that did not consistently unbalance it for the defenders.  With the above rules most cruisers usually have between 4 and 6 attacks.  Giving the defenders one or two extra dice unbalances this and causes the attackers to always fight at a disadvantage.  

Anyways if you have any ideas on how to include turrets while keeping the above in mind I would be happy to hear about them.  I have a few ideas but nothing concrete yet.  Such as subtracting dice from the attacker for the first round of combat only.

^2


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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:05 am 
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Quote (Squared @ 05 Jan. 2006 (06:12))
The current boarding mechanic supports it doing damage to a ship and I agree with Magus that the damage mostly represents killing the crew, though im sure that the damage would be significant anyways, just not hull damage. ?The current rules support this by making any ship reduced to 0 damage by boarding is turned into a drifting hulk. ?This is something which I forgot to include in the rules.

True but i that case, the ship was probably damaged to the point where boarding would finish it off. What you are proposing is, as I said, boarding that is as efficient as lances when causing damage. I cannot see that in this universe especially since as I said, the cruisers are generally 3 kms long and a battleship, 5. Imagine you actually get to roll 4-6 dice (which you yourself have pointed out) which causes damage on a 4+? I don't think so.

Even if half the crews were fighting, which I seriously doubt, a ship is not one big corridor. It is a system of corridors where it will be quite difficult for the attackers. Again, I prefer crits here rather than actual hits against a ship. If you get lucky and roll high with crits, you can even do serious damage.






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 Post subject: Boarding
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:12 pm 
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As for crew relating to hitpoints somewhere long ago I read hitpoints are crew...

So Admiral, you have the view boarding does no hitpoint damage and yet again you support the official boarding rules where damage is done to hitpoints. Could you explain?

I certainly could see boarding only inflicting critical hits, just as hit & run, maybe 2d6 - x instead of D6.

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