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Hedgehobbit
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged?  Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:23 pm |
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The EA way of making detachments is better for tournament play (like I'm ever going to do that) but I liked being able to field a detachment in Epic that is the exact mix of troops that you have in your favorite Warhammer 40K army. I bought an Epic IG army just so I can field my 40K IG army. It has my Captain, my Commissar, my Psyker, my Russ, and a single Chimera. It's a less than optimal mix, sure, but it's fun. When was the last time you saw a 40K army that consisted of nothing but four Sentinals or 5 landspeeders?
I'm not sure I prefer the E40K or the EA way of activating units. However, I think the EA way would work better in E40K since you have a clearcut command structure. Your Initiative value can vary depending on who and what your current leader is.
One thing I was thinking of to help speed up E40K was to use column shifts (ala BFG) rather than doubling or halving firepower. So, shooting while assaulting results in a 2 column shift instead of a *1/2 firepower. The firepower table is built such that each 2 columns reduced the number of hit dice by 1/2 so they are similar mathematically. Also, I'd probably get rid of the silly Morale Clock since I haven't met anyone who likes it. Give out Victory Points for objectives and for reducing enemy detachments to 1/2 strength and be done with it.
Regarding the E40K models: the E40K-era Eldar titans stunk it up big time. Truly craptacular. The boxy Warlord was barely tolerable.
Aaron
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primarch
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged? Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:19 am |
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
Welcome to the forums Hedgehobbit, by any chance is you full name Aaron Teske?
Primarch
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged? Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:47 am |
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Epic 40k would IMO be a _really_ good generic sci-fi system, but it lacks _something_ which I have never quite been able to put my finger on.
So yeah, if anybody found that "something" for me it would be a really good game as opposed to nice game.
Still, a matter of taste I guess. NetEpic and Heresy are my favorites. 
Oh, and welcome aboard.
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Gandalf the Grey
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged? Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:17 pm |
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Location: Tampa, Florida
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Well, like Legion always says make up your own custom rules. I like the idea of alternating units in each phase in Epc 40k. Hell, if there was only one thing I would change that would probably be it. In truth I only really enjoying playing with friends, and we always find ourselves making house rules regardless of the game system.
I've also found I enjoyed Epic 40k in small games involving 500 point armies and ones with 2000 point armies. All that really changes is the amount of firepower a detachment can inflict or take according to it's size, and I like Epic where every mini counts. I feel like I get that in small Epic 40k games.
I'm really disappointed with Epic A. I was so honored being part of the playtester's vault in the beginning, but the strategy for it's release really let me down. I guess after 4 systems though everyone is going to have their favorite. I garantee by the time many of the last armies become 'official' half of the players out there wont care and will have moved on to other games.
A far cry from walking into hobby stores ten years ago and seeing massive battles being fought under SM2/TL. We might say the games go better but the reality is people just don't find the games as interesting or fun. When Jervis stripped away real characters and customizable titans (for whatever the reason), he killed two things I really liked about SM2/TL, and sort of had in Epic 40k.
Lets face it, we build, paint, and read far more with these games than we play. If the games doesn't inspire you during that time you'll never reach the gaming table. In talking to people about EA and other Epic games, I just feel that if SM2/TL was re-released as it's original, it would have created twice the stir as EA did. Even if EA is a better system, SM2/TL had more flavor, and I really think that is what counts.
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Gandalf the Grey
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged? Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:59 pm |
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Oh yeah, I completely forgot about my real major hang-up about Epic 40k, and it's the massive size the detachments can become. I just feel like every army behaves more like a mob, and the 30cm from the commander is too big. I prefer a chain link. I don't mind Tyranids and Orks being big, but even the Imperial Guard can be too massive, and while it may appear realistic, in gaming it just isn't fun have 2-3 large detachments going up against 2-3 other large detachments. I think playing with at least 4-5 and a war engine is a minimum.
Without flexibility, games get boring.
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iblisdrax
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged? Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:33 pm |
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I think that is what my group originally intended...to field large armies and bash at each other. And that is what we did , mostly. No objective, vps or anything, just grind each other up untill one side or the other gave up. By switching to Epic:A, tactics are a necessity due to the (mostly) small detachment sizes.
my 2cents,
iblisdrax
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged? Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:48 am |
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Good point I/drax ... tactics makes all the difference. And Activation makes all the difference in E40K vs. E:A ... IMO. 
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Hedgehobbit
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged? Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:03 pm |
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| Quote (primarch @ 17 2005 Mar.,01:19) | | Welcome to the forums Hedgehobbit, by any chance is you full name Aaron Teske? |
Nope, sorry.
Regarding detachment sizes. We found pretty early on that huge detachments were sub-optimal. There isn't much point to go past 15 units (to get the +1). We tended to field 5-6 detachments each even in our small games. This is especially true of IG infantry with their screwed up command squad costs. YMMV.
Aaron
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Markconz
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged? Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:24 pm |
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| Quote (Hedgehobbit @ 18 2005 Mar.,13:03) | | Quote (primarch @ 17 2005 Mar.,01:19) | | Welcome to the forums Hedgehobbit, by any chance is you full name Aaron Teske? |
Nope, sorry.
Regarding detachment sizes. We found pretty early on that huge detachments were sub-optimal. There isn't much point to go past 15 units (to get the +1). We tended to field 5-6 detachments each even in our small games. This is especially true of IG infantry with their screwed up command squad costs. YMMV.
Aaron |
Yup we also found that most formations tended to be 15-25, plus some smaller sized formations for zooming around like bikes/roughriders.
The screwed up Imperial Guard command cost was changed in a Firepower magazine later on, I forget which one. You only have to pay the commander surcharge on the first commander in a detachment or something.
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andyskinner
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged? Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:45 pm |
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:12 pm
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I know I'm digging up old topics ...
I like Epic 40K. ?Maybe the army-picking systems for other versions were a bit better, but I'm a fan of abstraction for Epic figures.
Before Epic A, I worked (with others on the epic mailing list) on The Titan Project to add interest to Titans. ?This, plus a few tweaks, was all I really wanted. ?Epic Armageddon is neat, but when we lost detail on Titans (my interpretation of having to target one unit) and gained on Land Speeders (all those variations), it was going the wrong way for me personally. ?(Even if my name is in the book!)
But lots of people hated E40K for the reasons I love it.
The reason I'm lurking about on Epic pages now is I'm planning on resurrecting E40K as a hex game. ?I want 4" or 6" hexes, with detachments occupying one or two hexes. ?The goal is to never have to be fiddly with the placement of a 6mm figure. ?So I'm increasing abstraction. ?
There were improvements in Firepower, and I had an old letter in some mag or other about fixing what I saw as some problems with assigning hits. ?(I don't remember now, but it wouldn't affect me in my hex game.)
I could see moving flyers a bit more like Epic A (I don't remember the difference at the moment, but my impression was Epic A gave you more use for your figures), and I could see improvements to close combat. ?But give me that E40K abstraction!
andy
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Gorm
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Post subject: Can Epic:40K be salvaged? Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:16 pm |
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Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:22 pm
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Location: Denmark
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I'm still playing Epic 40.000 and would really like to get my hands on the the official rule amendments. I've been trying to scoop up the "Firepower" and "Epic" mags on ebay, but the postage to Denmark always gets quite unreasonable (like 22$ for posting one mag). I've used the rule amendments that Marko posted for the last couple of years (http://au.geocities.com/markconz/epic.html). I can see that other essential official amendments have been made, as gleaned from a list I found here: http://brent.mclean.name/combatc....ex.pdf. I'd really like to get hold of these rule amendments.
Although I play Epic 40.000 because of its superiority in terms of playability and intensity, I really think that it holds a lot more subtlety than it has been given credit for.
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