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Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6

 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Don't really get why a 5+ Holofield save is so problematic? It's like 3+ holofield... But on 5+. The point being that they still get to save against e.g. TK weapons, which shouldn't be better at hitting stuff with Holofield.

Giving them 1DC with 3+ holo could be an alternative tho.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:42 pm 
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From a fluff perspective, I never really understood the Eldar Titan list.

The Wraith constructs are abominations that are only fielded out of dire necessity; They have no particular relationship to the Titan clans (as opposed to the Imperial Titan Legions and their close relationship with Knightly Houses).

The Eldar Knights are an Exodite phenomenon; They have no link to the craftworlds or the Titan clans.

The modern Wraithknight is more a Wraith than a Knight, in this scheme of things.

I can see the thematic link (graceful stompy robots!), but I struggle to think of a natural engagement where the Titan clan would be the main fighting force, accompanied by various allies. At best, they would be the spearhead in a decisive assault - and I suppose a thematic list could be built around that. For that, I'd give them access to scouts (including war walkers), jetbikes and mounted infantry, removing the options for Gates, Aspects and other heavy gear.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Mrdiealot wrote:
Don't really get why a 5+ Holofield save is so problematic? It's like 3+ holofield... But on 5+. The point being that they still get to save against e.g. TK weapons, which shouldn't be better at hitting stuff with Holofield.

Giving them 1DC with 3+ holo could be an alternative tho.


Because the rules say a holofield save is 3+. Not whats in a brackets after it.

Seriously - lets change the holofield rule , I'm up for that. I'd rather see it (and been advocating for a long time) that it should not be a save. It should be a -3 to hit (ignored by barrage weapons)....but that rule is not going to change!

But while we're at it lets update revenants and engines of vaul?

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Harry


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Because the rules say a holofield save is 3+. Not whats in a brackets after it.


Invulnerable Save is defined as a 6+ save in the core rules, but it still gets modified to other values in all sorts of lists. Don't see a reason why you couldn't do it to Holofields as well.

In Craftworld Lugganath I did re-write the Holofield rule to make clear what has what save, which I think would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Mrdiealot wrote:
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Because the rules say a holofield save is 3+. Not whats in a brackets after it.


Invulnerable Save is defined as a 6+ save in the core rules, but it still gets modified to other values in all sorts of lists. Don't see a reason why you couldn't do it to Holofields as well.


Does it? I'm not aware. I thought in other lists they had they're own special 'list' rules (aka knights)? Does this list need a special 'list specific rule'? Because the holofield rule is pretty clear - it's a 3+ save. Does the game really need any more special rules or exceptions?

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Personally I have don't have problems with new special rules as long as they 1. add something of value to the game 2. are very easy to explain. And a 5+ Holofield save is very easy to explain.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Yep, and people who play tyranids, tau and necrons think their special rules are really easy to understand as well.

Or could we just design lists in accordance with the rules as written?


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:29 pm 
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The rules as written are in the Core Rules. The army lists are meant to be modified. But I see we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:40 pm 
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That's fair enough. I'm on the fence whether they should have a holofield save (3+ as the rules) or 5+ reinforced in the vein of the Engines of Vaul. I just don't see why their needs to be a compromise. Chose one - determine points value accordingly.

I really want this list to move forward. I think a lot of us are champing at the bit for it to get approved. I'm just don't see a need for further special rules when it's not required...which I believe is not in this case. It's not even a special rule - it's changing current rule. Best of luck....

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Harry


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Gunslinger9 wrote:
I think a lot of us are champing at the bit for it to get approved.


Those people should playtest. Opinions are just that. As it stands right now, scarik only really needs to take those of Markco, PFE and their opponents into account.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Mrdiealot wrote:
Don't really get why a 5+ Holofield save is so problematic? It's like 3+ holofield... But on 5+. The point being that they still get to save against e.g. TK weapons, which shouldn't be better at hitting stuff with Holofield.

Giving them 1DC with 3+ holo could be an alternative tho.


Because it replaces armour save - so they get a single 5+ save which means they die very easily.
Perviously they had 5+ inv/5+ Armour so two 5+ saves.

With the change they will only get a single 5+ save. Read Holofield rules it replace armour save doesn't add to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:21 pm 
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I agree they're perhaps too fragile. Wouldn't be against a 5+ RA and 5+ Holofield save. But it would perhaps be even easier to give them a 4+ Holofield, which would be more consistent with how the Revenants work (no RA).

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:55 pm 
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The wonderful halofield…

I and scarik have spoken about tweaking the halofield rule, many months ago and I know he has is preference on the matter and so will others…

My preference is to have the Holofield rule so that it’s (x), so meaning that any number could be assigned to it and follow the same rule….so a Warlock/Phantom could be 3+, Revenants 4+(this would need a points adjustment on the formation or unit) and so on….

Although I was aiming to have the rule covers all lists, and not just the Titan list…. Which would entail a shit load of testing..

As to the Wraith Knights save, I would give them 5+RA and 5+ halo filed save, just my 2 cents worth...

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:56 pm 
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I'm onboard with the Holofield(x) rule.

Warithknights for either 5+RA and Holofield(5+) or a single Holofield(4+).

Id keep consistency with the larger titans at just 3+ if it was up to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Titan Clan 4.2.6
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:26 pm 
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I like the idea of holofield(x). I hate army specific rules. I'm ok with race rules that covers a number of lists, but army specific ones on niche list always surprise me.

Quote:
Which would entail a shit load of testing.


Could initially the current ones just be left Holofield (3) which would be no change? That would allow people to do other stuff with Knights, and work out Reverents/Phantoms/Warlocks later....maybe even Engines of Vaul...

Regards

Harry


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