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Thw who gets hit rant - round 2, - MW and TK

 Post subject: Thw who gets hit rant - round 2, - MW and TK
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:03 pm 
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Ok, its been a long day at work and I feel the need to rant / stimulate debate,
so the issue I feel is that the game could benefit from some clear guidance for how the nearest unit works.

To explain, its quite common for units to be qui distant, and the defender (guy getting shot at) to allocate the hits. - fine, simple, this works.
Effectively the palyer is saying, this is the front unit.
But then there is the matter of MW and TK.
This is particularly an issue in assaults.

So lets say we have an Ork mob with two gretchins, a nob, and a gun fortress with three shields.
They are in a FF with a sisters of battle unit (or anything else with MW FF).
The sisters score 4 normal hits and a macro.
Macros are allocated after all normal hits are allocated and saved.
So the Ork allocates, takes three normal shots into the gun fortress (DC3) which take down the shields.
He then takes one hit into a Nob, so he can use their save, and one hit into the gretchen - cause they count for nothing.
Effectively he has said that the nearest units are the gunfortress, the nob, and the now dead gretchen.
But then comes the macro, - and suddenly the other gretchen is nearer.
If the assault goes to another round, he may take three normal shots into the gunfortress, then some ork boyz soke up the macro.

Imagine the same concept in firing, which is supposed to be the same rule.
Say a warlord with Gtlling blasters and a volcano cannon fires apon a Lemon Russ company with a hydra that happens to be equi distant. All the saveable shots go into the reinforced tanks, then suddenly the hydra is at the front to take the unstoppable titan killer. - there woudl be a scream of foul.

Im suggesting that the defender allocates the front units, but through doing so then accepts that the MW or TK will also have to hit them in the order they allocate them to the front. - its not a big ask, and removes this gameyness where players keep changing who or whats at front to get the best save (which only ever helps smarter players).


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 Post subject: Re: Thw who gets hit rant - round 2, - MW and TK
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:18 pm 
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If they are completely equidistant (very hard to achieve perfectly in FF, this is often a game of millimetres) then it's not remotely gamey for the defender to allocate hits in such a way as to minimise their effectiveness in my view, if they are all equidistant then there is nothing stopping you allocating the volcano cannon to the hydra which hasn't taken any AT shots

It's an edge case and rarely comes up outside CC-focused close combat in my experience

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 Post subject: Re: Thw who gets hit rant - round 2, - MW and TK
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:32 pm 
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I can't remember more than a couple of times when enemy units have been equidistant for FF or shooting attacks. In those times they have been we usually roll a die to determine the closer one.

Your argument can easily be applied to CC though, which is where I've see it pop up now and then. I.e. your regular hits went on BtB units with saves and your MW hit went on a BtB Grot. Ya, that kind of sucks for the attacker, but it kind of sucks that the defender has to allocate hits in such a way that maximizes abilities and hits in favor of the attacker. I think it evens out.

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 Post subject: Re: Thw who gets hit rant - round 2, - MW and TK
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Dave wrote:
but it kind of sucks that the defender has to allocate hits in such a way that maximizes abilities and hits in favor of the attacker. I think it evens out.


Where is that stated? I don't think I have ever played that way at all, normally as the defender we allocate hits in such a way that they are least effective for the attacker

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 Post subject: Re: Thw who gets hit rant - round 2, - MW and TK
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:09 pm 
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For clarity, I do really mean assaults. So for simplicity over look at CC, where everything is touching.... Hiya allocated front to back, become a decision for the defender. So say we had land raiders and devs in CC, the land raiders would be opted first, ....but if that was with a bloodthirster, 3 normal CC, 3 tc cc, it's where the defender puts the normal hits into the land raiders with their reinforced save, then puts the TC into the devs.
I've seen such approach used to ''mitigate" macros and tc. In assaults enough times to be worth a whine.... (But I've also been spammed by the Scot Gov all week in work and developed a hatred of the world...)


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 Post subject: Re: Thw who gets hit rant - round 2, - MW and TK
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:28 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:
Where is that stated? I don't think I have ever played that way at all, normally as the defender we allocate hits in such a way that they are least effective for the attacker


Third question under 1.12.5:

http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/faq/#1 ... ve-attacks

It's how Neal explained it, but it happened after the '09 edits so it got FAQed/5-min warmuped.

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 Post subject: Re: Thw who gets hit rant - round 2, - MW and TK
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:00 am 
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Dan 1314 wrote:
I've seen such approach used to ''mitigate" macros and tc. In assaults enough times to be worth a whine.... (But I've also been spammed by the Scot Gov all week in work and developed a hatred of the world...)


Well, having to allocate and resolve the regular hits before the MW/TK hits at least gives you the chance of a failed Land Raider save (and those make the Marine opponent particularly gity). But otherwise, ya it's just how the game does it. I bet it wouldn't bother you if the government made you play Epic instead of gave you work.

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 Post subject: Re: Thw who gets hit rant - round 2, - MW and TK
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:17 am 
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Dan 1314 wrote:
For clarity, I do really mean assaults. So for simplicity over look at CC, where everything is touching.... Hiya allocated front to back, become a decision for the defender. So say we had land raiders and devs in CC, the land raiders would be opted first, ....but if that was with a bloodthirster, 3 normal CC, 3 tc cc, it's where the defender puts the normal hits into the land raiders with their reinforced save, then puts the TC into the devs.
I've seen such approach used to ''mitigate" macros and tc. In assaults enough times to be worth a whine.... (But I've also been spammed by the Scot Gov all week in work and developed a hatred of the world...)


Yup. That’s perfectly legal. Good play by the defender, poor play by you to put the bloodthirster into that unit. Or at least to have engaged all the devs in cc.

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