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overwatch

 Post subject: overwatch
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:21 am 
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A quick question came up at a tournament and I struggled to find the answers in the TP.

Examples
Thunderhawk comes in and unloads the overwatch is after the unload. As it states in a FAQ.

How about loaded raiders assaulting something. Can overwatch be shot before they unload?

I remember it states at the end of a move you can overwatch. I was thought it would be after they unload having no completed the move. But then it also stats you can unload after completing a move.



Apologies if this has been asked heaps.


Another question. I know a WE is considered 1 unit for locking something inside in the UK. How is it played elsewhere or is this the actual wording in the TP. Again cant find the actual wording for it.

Can a thunderhawk full of terminators lock units inside a gorgon using the hawk for the additional 2???

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 Post subject: Re: overwatch
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:32 am 
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Norto, as to your first question. The digital rule book say in the second paragraph of section 1.10 overwatch the following:

A formation that is on overwatch may choose to shoot
immediately after an enemy formation completes a move or
unloads troops, and before the target either shoots or assaults.

Note that you can shoot overwatch after they have moved or unloaded and before the enemy either shoots or assaults. You could shoot overwatch before they assault or even elect to shoot.

Thus, if the raiders elect to stay on board their transport and shoot a FF engagement, then you can shoot at the flimsy LV raider. If it is destroyed, than as per the rules the troops on board have to make a 6+ save or be destroyed.

As to the second question, I am not so sure. I know a war engine needs 2 x its own DC worth of units to block any units mounted on it from disembarking into an assault. I think the War engine only counts a 1 unit for the purposes of blocking other war engines.

I remember someone giving an example on one of the forum topics (do not ask me where exactly) which showed that you could have up to twice the number of War engines surrounding a WE in close combat even though you could not possibly get them all into base contact. They said it was possible. As to how many DC a WE counts for in order to block transported units from disembarking from another WE, I am unsure. But I think it is still 1.

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 Post subject: Re: overwatch
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:12 am 
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Question 1: afaik the difference is because landing a thawk doesn't count as a move – so the thawk landing isn't the trigger for OW, its the disembark that does it. So yes, the raiders can be shot before unload, because their move was a real 'move' as a ground unit.

Question 2: i used to play it 1 per DC counting up if for were locking other stuff in its transport, EUK now rule all WE count as 1 regardless as DC for locking other stuff in, so check with TO/meta.

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 Post subject: Re: overwatch
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:25 am 
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Yep, landing isn't movement, so no overwatch until an AC unloads. Why? Deathstrikes used to be no LoS. Put them on overwatch against air-cav marines and watch the hilarity unfold.

WEs are only allowed to BtB 2x their DC. But nowhere in the rules does it say that they count as their DC when in BtB with a unit. So they count as only one unit. The rules do say that it takes 2x their DC to keep transported units in it from disembarking though.

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 Post subject: Re: overwatch
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:28 am 
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Question 1. Correct. The history behind this is in the early days of E:A, people got fed up with air assaults and planet falling transports being nuked by Death strikes and even Shadow Swords on OW before the troops disembarked. So it was determined that the air movement did not trigger the OW as Apoc says. Ground moves are different, and each move can be a trigger before the troops finally disembark.


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 Post subject: Re: overwatch
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:02 pm 
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I'm not sure if "landing isn't movement" exactly. Landing doesn't count as movement for overwatch because there is a specific FAQ in the TP that says so. Landing does, however, count as movement where for example a landed aircraft that does not disengage wants to fire flak at other aircraft in the end phase (i.e. the shots are at -1 for moving)

IMHO how many units WE counts as should be the same for the purposes of:
- The rule limiting how many units can base to base a single enemy unit, and
- The rule about trapping troops inside a transport WE
e.g. 6 units are the maximum that can base to base a 3DC WE and 6 is the required number to trap troops inside said WE

If a WE counts as as many units as its starting DC for these two purposes then:
A 3 DC or bigger WE could not enter base to base with an infantry or vehicle as the max no. of units that can base to base is two.
Therefore a WE as 1 unit makes sense here

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 Post subject: Re: overwatch
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:00 pm 
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What about the number of units that must contact a WE before it loses its ZoC and you can move on to base the next unit?

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 Post subject: Re: overwatch
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Thanks guys. Sir ffoley has a good point.

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