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Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Developmental)

 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Well I'll tell you one thing that ain't going to kill you in Australia (unlike the US): Going to school >:(

Anyways will take a look tonight.

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:22 pm 
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the new format looks great! Very much following the fluff when you can mix and match units (yes, i red up on them today since i realized i knew very little about them). It also makes the list different from other marine lists which is a good thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:28 pm 
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Looking more like DW now and as already mention" makes the list different from other marine lists" ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:33 am 
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What's the chance of this list getting to developmental status before CA Norto? I'm excited by the concept of painting half as much as I need to for the Skitarii, which means I might actually get it done :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:00 am 
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Should be in development stage by then. But i guess its still up to the TO.

Glad to hear your keen on the list.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:20 am 
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Norto wrote:
Should be in development stage by then. But i guess its still up to the TO.

Glad to hear your keen on the list.



I'd reckon Mic will let it through. I'm planning on trying to take Sisters to CA as well


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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Developmental)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Just spotted this, and quite excited about it, as I'm a big fan of the Ordo Xenos, Deathwatch in particular.

A few questions regarding some of the options you've made:

Deathwatch are very limited in number and rarely deploy a whole Watch Fortress compliment, and since the Deatchwatch can commandeer Imperial Units at their discretion (and usually do in large conflicts), why not include some Imperial Guard Formations instead of the Inquisitorial Units (I think Inquisitorial Units would be more appropriate in an Ordo Army), or have them available as an Allied contingent (1/3 points)

This is a Deatchwatch Army List, but why not an Ordo Xenos? If you're admitting the possibility of an Inquisitor Supreme Commander, why not have the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers as a main part of the Army. After all, these would be more readily available to an Inquisitor than Deathwatch, and more suitable to be present in the list. *Edit Ignore the bit about the Ordo Xenos, however, I feel an Inquisitor is out of place leading a Deatchwatch Army

Why can't the Corvus transport Terminators?
Also, maybe the Bikes and Assault should take 2 spots?
Why no Assault Terminators in the Kill Teams?*Edit Nevermind, Thought there were other lists with them, but can't find any.
Why Plasma Cannons instead of Regular Assault Cannons or Cyclones? Plasmas are more Dark Angels Stuff
*Edit Just read back there you don't follow 40k
Corvus can Transport Terminators, Assault Marines and Bikes. Terminators and Assaults take 2 slots of transport capacity. Bikes take 3 slots, so a Corvus could transport 4 bikes in 40k and that's about right for 1 stand of Epic Bikes)

Don't get why the Landing Craft and the Strike Team are Detachments and not Support



Some suggestions and minor cosmetic changes based on more recent background (both DW RPG and latest Codex):

Change the Name of the Kill Team Formation to Watch Company. Each Watch Company has 4 Kill Teams, that can be represented by each stand in the formation.
Change the Deathwatch Captain to Watch Master - He is the commander of a Watch Fortress. I'd also give him Supreme Commander instead of the Inquisitor (I'd imagine an Inquisitor would assign military command to a specialized alien hunter) *Edit
Change the Deathwatch Sergeant to Deathwatch Captain - He would be in charge of a Watch Company.
Change the Deathwatch Veteran to Deathwatch Kill Team
Maybe Change the name of the Hellfire Bolter to Artifex Pattern Bolter

Maybe change the Power Weapon and Thunder Hammer names of the Sergeant and Black Shield to Close Combat Weapons (if you're not planning on giving them MW, otherwise there will always be a doubt if it's a typo or not)

Some Typos and other suggestions based on the above:

Using The Army List
The following army list allows you to field an army based on the DeathWatch or one of their successor chapters using their preferred operational methods.

".....Death Watch armies may be supported by Imperial Navy aircraft and Titan Legion Battlegroups"
There isn't an option for Titans in the Army List. I get it that this is a draft and you'll probably add them at a later stage. If not, then the above is a Typo.


Kill Team Watch Company:
4 of the following units plus 2 and transports:
0-1 Watch Sergeant Captain 50 Points
Deathwatch Veteran and Transport 50 Points
Deathwatch Black Shield and Transport 50 Points
Deathwatch Terminator 75 Points
Deathwatch Bike 50 Points
Deathwatch Vanguard Veteran 75 Points

*Edit
A Killteam can have up to 10 men, depending on mission, so a Watch company could have anything from 20 to 40 men. Taking this into account I'd add an option to the upgrades to increase the size of the Watch Company:

Kill Team Watch Company Upgrades
Commander, Dreadnought, Land Raider, Razorback, Corvus Black Star, Kill Team



Kill Team Upgrade (*New):
Add 1 of the following: Deathwatch Veteran (50), Deathwatch Terminator (75) Deathwatch Bike (50), Deathwatch Vanguard Veteran (75)
Note: You can have multiples of this upgrade.


Commander Upgrade:
Add Deathwatch Captain Watch Master, Deathwatch Chaplain or Deathwatch Librarian

Razorback Upgrade:
Add 1 Razorback for each infantry unit that can be transported in one

Corvus Black Star:
Add a Corvus Black Star for every 2 each infantry units that can be transported in one.



Great Work so far! Keep it up!


*Edited Above

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Developmental)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Hey Kalrath,

Definitely keen to fix up so of the names and change up some weapons to follow the fluff.

I was aware of terminators in the corvus black stars but i was worried about the mixing of 2 terminators and say 2 veterans in 3 corvus blacks stars with such a large assault range.

Happy if you want to try it out and do a battle report or 2 to give some feedback of how it goes.

I May swap the structure around later and maybe move the supreme commander to a Watch Master.

I'm trying to go for a Inquisition theme calling on the support of the deathwatch to help deal with the xenos threat. Hence keeping the SC as the Inquisitors lord. Forces you to either take a Inquisitorial Warband, Inquisitorial Storm Trooper Platoon or a Mobile Command Center. So its not a mix and mach codex list.

Thanks
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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Developmental)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Norto wrote:
I was aware of terminators in the corvus black stars but i was worried about the mixing of 2 terminators and say 2 veterans in 3 corvus blacks stars with such a large assault range.


Yeah probably a good call that. I think you should probably put the note on the blackstar unit that it can carry a termie but not allow the upgrade for the list structure itself. That sidesteps issues in a future hypothetical list where air mounted termies are to be found and not require a customized version of the unit specific for that list. It CAN carry a termie (so the unit is properly defined) but in this list, they're not air mobile.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Developmental)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Thank you for the clarifications.

Ok, now I can see the logic behind the Inquisitor forces.

As for the Terminators and Corvus, I'll give it a try. I don't see it being very different from a Wraithguard/Blade Formation being Transported by Wave Serpents (at 425 to 475pts for 4WG+4WS).

Maybe a cost increase would also help in that case. After all, it is a highly versatile unit.

I saw a comment before that unit types should be limited in a formation. I agree, and perhaps they should be something like: no unit can exceed the number of veterans in the formation.
This would keep it more in line with the fluff (Vets being the backbone of a Kill Team), and also help with the Corvus/Terminator issue.
If you'd like for a possibility of specialized formations (All Assault, Terminators or Bikes) I'd reintroduce these as Support Detachments as in 1 or 2 per Watch Company, and no upgrades or bare minimum.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Developmental)
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 4:41 am 
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Just a quick one mate, the Assassins upgrade for the Inq warband doesn't appear to have a cost anywhere in the list, or how the upgrade adds to/changes the unit.

- edit -
and the corvus upgrade wording is a bit odd. A RAW reading means a company of 2 vets and 2 termies can only have 2 corvus, which isn't enough. I know it's not what you mean..


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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Developmental)
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Hey Fruitbat,

Yeah its a few errors on my part. I dont actually know what happened to the assassin upgrade but its 20 points each to replace a stand 0-2 option.

Also the blackstar is just me forgetting to change the wording when i allowed the blackstar to be able to transport terminators at 1 per blackstar. Ill fix it up in the next update.

Thanks for picking these up :D

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Developmental)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:41 am 
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All fixed up now fruitbat. Thanks for point it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2018 (Developmental)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Had another game on Friday night against Dave, Dave helping me out and taking the Death watch for a spin. Ended up a win to him on point by around 300 or so.

A few thoughts after the game. which were brought up last game. Wisdom provided by Dave.

Corvus black stars being to cheap, but 300 sounding about right for a formation.
So I'm planning in the next update to drop the starting tax for a kill team from 50 to 25 effectively making the formation cheaper but upping the price of the Corvus black stars.

2 Black stars for 75 points
3 Black stars for 125 points
4 Black stars for 150 points

The only problem i find is the Terminators become 325 same as the space wolves.

other option would be to make Terminators 0-2 to a kill team and a separate company of 4 at 350 like normal.

Thunder bolts up to 175 points too, forgot to change it when i dropped the inquisitor lord and upped them to strat 5.


A few other options Ive been thinking about is maybe adding a Melta to the Watch Sergeant and Black shields to 4+ FF.
I haven't really seen me or others take thee as the other options are better.

Any thoughts?

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