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Headquarters

 Post subject: Headquarters
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:37 am 
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I havent delved into the tomes of history for this, so please be gentle if this has been gone over again and again.

The rule Headquarters currently can mean that the wargamer antic of Sniping is reduced a lot, to the point of templates dodging HQs, massed fire going around HQs and also actual Sniper units doing their jobs. HQs that get too close to the front or get their bodyguards peeled back, then can get hit. Forces that get tons of HQs dont shepherd them too much, forces with few need to be damn careful or their whole army resets to dumbass or frenzies.

The middle ground I can see and hope is actually also reasonable to others:
- Templates can cover HQs, but unless they meet the proximity/pinning class restriction, they CANT take a hit.
This represents some other schmuck taking the hits, not the peeps that have the plan.

I wrote a big thing about firing dice allocation, but actually the only real frustrating one is the templates. I would like to be able to put templates wherever I usually could, I dont mind if the game effect is reduced so that HQs are not always slammed in the first turn, so the players get to play with systems like chain of command, Nobz, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Headquarters
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Yeah, it's something that bugs me too.

I would like to see some kind of Warhammer 40k style rules like 'Look out sir' or allocating hits to other units first be default as not being able to assign shots to an HQ unit until all of the closer units of that type are removed is a bit of a pain and can make for some rather daft positioning of HQ units.

Unless i'm just playing it wrong?

for example, an imperial guard unit of Leman Russ tanks sits directly in front of my units, in formation like this;

......HQ Tank
...../...........\
tank1...........tank2

I have 6 shots to allocate, for simplicity and not being 'gamey' i'd like to allocate 2 attacks to each tank, roll pairs of dice and work out the results, if it happened that the shots missed the normal tanks, but the HQ was hit, then so be it. But instead the options are (as i see it, unless i'm not playing dice allocation properly?!);

Allocate 2 shots to each of the of the normal tanks and 2 to the HQ, if both of the normal tanks are not taken out by their attacks, then the 2 shots allocated to the HQ can't be taken?

or

Allocate 3 shots to each of the normal tanks, with the hope of killing them and attack the HQ with another unit, or next turn?

In my opinion, better options could be.

The attacker can allocate attacks to a HQ only after all closer non-HQ units of that type have an equal number of attacks on them (like the example above)
likewise for templates it would need to initially target at least as many non-HQ units as HQs.

or

The player controlling the HQ unit can opt to defer attacks to other units in the formation (until this isn't possible - eg, units out of LOS, or not under the template, or if it is the last unit standing)

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 Post subject: Re: Headquarters
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:20 pm 
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Yeah i started to dig into firing dice options and wasnt convinced it would all help as much as the template.
its really that games seem to be 2-4 turns long so you dont have many options to dig out HQs, even when they are only 2nd rank.

I do appreciate HQs getting to bring in CnC elements to the game, it makes it more tactical and crunchy, which i enjoy.

I like the idea of HQs shifting dice/hits off to nearby troops, that would still be simple and rapid.


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 Post subject: Re: Headquarters
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:30 am 
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Yeah, this has been discussed a few times. The rule is the way it is for two reasons, as far as i can tell.

1) Because that is how it worked in 2nd edition Epic (Space Marine 2nd / Titan Legions rules).

2) Because certain factions rely on having HQ stands in close proximity, they have to be tricky to take out otherwise those specific factions will become largely uncontrolled after the first game turn. While some players might not mind that, most do.

There has never been a proposed fix that all posting players have agreed on. There probably won't be either, as the die-hard long-time players are used to it how it is and prefer it that way. Still, it would not hurt overmuch to add an optional rule (or two) for those who don't like it.

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 Post subject: Re: Headquarters
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:02 am 
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Thanks Magnus, good to know its an area that is open to improvement, even if there is no immediate bridge that works for everyone.

To me the cleanest way to handle templates is they can go anywhere but just not allocate hits to HQ unless the HQ isnt able to use the HQ restrictions. So clumps of dudes attract attention from AoE weapons, without being forced to only clip a few on the outside artificially.

There may be a few ways to improve dice allocation for direct firing vs HQs, it seems to be messier to get it right.

I like how HQs function overall to show the well organised forces vs those that need close attention from their leaders to get them moving in the right way.


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 Post subject: Re: Headquarters
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:52 pm 
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As one of those die hard long-time players, I definitely do not want to see this rule changed and I especially do not want to see any 40K system of rules introduced. 40K has, relative to Epic, very clunky and complex rules which I would strongly advise us never to emulate. The current rule as it stands does not afford undue protection to HQ units. They can still be taken out, it just requires careful planning to achieve.

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 Post subject: Re: Headquarters
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:51 am 
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Oh, I am one of the die-hard long time players too, as you should remember. The base rule will not be changed. I may put in an optional rule or two, to handle different ways of dealing with the issue, but that is as far as it is going to go.

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