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Fir Iolarion 4.2.4

 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:06 pm 
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In case anyone's interested, I've made an (hopefully error-free) update to the Army Forge file. https://magnusdurr.github.io/snapfire/w ... rion_NETEA

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:10 pm 
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I've been absent the last few local meet-ups but that should change in the fall.

Activations are certainly an issue in this list and its by design. I want to lighten that a bit, but the main thing experience has shown me to worry about is the Revenant Horde. There was a point when you could just take 8 single Revs for 2800 and it was a nightmare of a list.

I am always happy to get feedback from people who play the list, so please let us know what you think.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Yeah, Revenant spam is a danger with a list like this. At least one Phantom / Warlock titans should definitely be compulsory. Maybe if you moved the Revenant pairs (I'm not so fond of Revenants running around alone, that feels kind of wrong) back up into the Warhost section, but made it so that you can only buy them once for each Phantom / Warlock? In that way they can still give access to cheaper activations, but they don't end up taking over the list. As is, the Reventant duo will rarely get taken, and that's a bit of a shame.

I'd also like to see some Wraithlords in the Troupes section. Are they not just small Wraithknights anyway?

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Both of those were in previous iterations. I moved away fro m wraithlords because they are very slow and Eldar can't garrison.

Feel free to try them out for yourself and see what you think. We're due for another update soon so more feedback is good.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:34 pm 
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My question is why a similar approach to the War Griffons AMTL list hasn't been taken. Phantom/Warlocks as "core", Revenant pairs at 0-2 then 0-1 support formation, including Revenant singles, per core. Then you can choose between lots of Revenants or access to all the other neat toys.

Warhosts: Phantom/warlock titans
0-2 per Warhost: Revenant titan pairs
0-1 per Warhost: Everything else (including flyers, single Revenants).

That seems to fit more smoothly with the precedent of the AMTL list and, while not outright prohibiting single Revenants, it certainly makes them less attractive as it directly impacts on other options. That choice being in player hands seems like a good one, though.

As it is, this Eldar titan list seems to me to have a generous allowance for non-titan support units (and in particular, excellent flyers).


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:26 pm 
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A big part of it is to avoid being 'AMTL, but Eldar.' Obviously it plays nothing like AMTL but I want to organize it to feel like other Eldar lists.

What do people think about going back to 0-1 Revenent Twins per 1000 points? I feel limiting by battle titans compounds the low activation problem. A phantom plus a pair is 1400 points.

I think the sweet spot is to have 2 battle titans and 6-8 activations.

I'm totally open for ways to get there. And I will test every idea I can find time for.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:56 pm 
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Like I said previously, I think the way to go is to allow 1 Revenant pair per Phantom/Warlock titan and to give access to two support choices per Warlock / Phantom and Revenant pair. Unless Revenant pairs give access to support choices, I don't really see a reason for taking them.

I also don't really see why the lack of speed on the Wraithlords is a problem. Something needs to guard the Blitz, and the list has got access to a Wraithgate.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:52 pm 
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I had the same thought about the wraithlords - decent blitz guard option.

On revenants, you could also put them in the 1/3 with aircraft. I've not played any games with them so take my comments with a pinch of salt, but are revenant pairs really a problem? I would be inclined to treat them like battle titans. Even with a 1:3 ratio, you could only get a max of 4 single revenants at 3k, and would be forced to take at least 2 battle titans or revenant pairs.

As things stand, the restrictive setup of the list incentives air units - having expensive core units and only 1:2 tends to have that effect, it's bad enough with steel legion but is worse here. Also makes it quite hard to design a list that uses the points effectively.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Thanks. I'll take a look at the list when I get home and make some test lists with the current feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:07 am 
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Mrdiealot wrote:
In case anyone's interested, I've made an (hopefully error-free) update to the Army Forge file. https://magnusdurr.github.io/snapfire/w ... rion_NETEA


Thanks for update to AF file, which I used in game here:
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=33608
Could we have his replace the old AF file on the site? If you go directly it is still version 2.2.1.

Knights are interesting to use, need further testing, bit of a strange matchup in this game.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:38 am 
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Cool to see someone got some use from it! I think I've done an update to the main branch now (not terribly experienced with Github).

I saw you didn't take any Revenants in the list?

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:18 pm 
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Mrdiealot wrote:
Cool to see someone got some use from it! I think I've done an update to the main branch now (not terribly experienced with Github).

I saw you didn't take any Revenants in the list?


Yeah thanks! (Though update doesn't seem to have worked still showing 2.2.1)

And yes no Revenants, wanted to test the Knights out in good numbers so it was a choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:59 am 
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How did you like the various knights?


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:10 am 
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Undecided need more testing :)
I do like ditching of the clunky triple save, that was probably also overpowered, though not certain about the current survivability.

I like the variation with the weapon combos, preferring the shooting over the close combat versions. 2x Wraithcannon ties with Wraithcannon and Spiritshield as most generally useful I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:11 pm 
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I've been staring at the document for hours now tinkering to make changes. Before and during this time I have also read much about Wraithlords in particular and Ghost Warriors in general.

Fluffwise all the WEs are full of spirit stones and have living pilots. Only the smaller ghosts are fully undead. Knights have the depressing note that they are the surviving twin of former Revenant Twins. And there are lots of cool weapons.

To that effect I am adding another Knight loadout: the Suncannon. Its for your hail of shots needs. Loadouts will also be done as pairs like Revs and Revs will get their own Suncannon. The Battle Titan Starcannon will be renamed to Titan Suncannon.

I'm also toying with some alternate Wraithlords: an assault version and a more shooty version as well as Wraithseers. The seers will be a unit, not a character. Its less fiddly since they have different weapons.

Should be up tonight or tomorrow. I look forward to all feedback.


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