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Tactics for New Players

 Post subject: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:59 pm 
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I was looking through the past threads and couldn't really find a good discussion on advice for new players of Epic 40,000. I've found that a lot of the strategies and tactics of the game really do not come out until you actually have a few games under your belt (just reading the rulebook is not enough). So I thought it might be useful to pool our collective wisdom and come up with some basic strategy advice here for people just rediscovering the game (muahaha, first TacCmd, then global domination!).

So, question 1: how do you like to build detachments? I think this might be the #1 confusing thing for new players, despite the copious examples in the rulebook, as the system is just so flexible.

I personally start with one or two large detachments that are the base of my army (kind of like a pyramid). These have an assortment of things in them, but are generally geared to high firepower and high assault values. The opponent will see these as the main threat (which they are) and focus on them. With 15 or more stands, they are very durable and will buy me time to achieve my own objectives while they threaten the heart of his army.

The next layer are medium-small units (8-12 stands, usually) that are specific configurations of troop types to achieve specific objectives. There are a ton of troop types in E40k that are good at specific tasks. The goal here is to strike a perfect balance between having a razor sharp focus (like maneuver or assault) and having a mix of other types to round out the unit and make it more flexible. You could build a detachment of just assault troops, but what about the transports they need to advance quickly? You could build a long-ranged firepower detachment, but why not add some infiltrators to slow down and waylay an enemy advance on their position? You should make a detachment that is really good at one thing, but also has a variety of backup abilities in case you find the enemy deploys a perfect counter detachment directly across the table from yours.

Here are some troop types to consider: fast (30cm+ speed), ignore terrain (skimmers, jump troops), support (artillery, barrage, disrupt units, heavy weapons), assault (hero, assault, close support), heavy (armour 6+, save, war engines), horde (cheap infantry), zone control and flankers (infiltrators), assassins (cavalry, jump troops, rampage, psykers), anti-titan (super heavy weapons, also any assault troops), anti-air (flak), transports, command and leadership, anchors (titans, some other war engines). Every faction has a different mix of these (even within a single unit—i.e. most Eldar vehicles are one type plus fast and terrain ignoring), and every detachment should focus on one and have at least a secondary type as well (for flexibility).

The third type of detachment are the smallest (maybe only 6 stands or less) and they achieve very focused and specific objectives on the battlefield. Take artillery or flak, for instance: the way the rules are written, it doesn't make sense to pair these with other unit types as it will distract them from using their special orders. Similarly, air-power or war engine detachments tend to operate on their own and cannot mix with other unit types. Lastly, you may just want a unit of very fast flankers to swoop around the enemy's rear lines and ambush fleeing units. While these hyper-specific detachments can be countered pretty easily, they are also smaller and worth fewer points (and besides, your opponent should be paying more attention to your bigger detachments, above, to pay these little guys any mind).

Finally, think about having a supreme commander detachment. These are the smallest of all, and may seem expensive for what they can achieve on the battlefield, but you will find their leadership abilities will be valuable at a pivotal moment in the game.

So here are my examples... What are some example detachments that worked for you?

Big unit:
Farseer in Wave Serpent
2 Scouts
6 Guardians (1 in Wave Serpent)
3 Aspect Warriors (Howling Banshees/Striking Scorpions) (1 with Warlock)
2 Aspect Warriors with Jump Packs (Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks) (1 in Wave Serpent)
3 Support Weapon Platforms
Total: 20 stands with decent firepower and strong assault, psyker and disrupt ability. If you want to make it faster then add more transports or jetbikes. If you want to make it more durable, then swap in Wraithguard, Dreadnoughts and War Walkers.

Medium Unit:
Fire Prism (HQ)
3 Aspect Warriors in Falcons
2 Fire Prisms
Total: 9 stands with good movement, firepower and anti-tank ability. Their objective might be to hunt down war engines or powerful but small detachments (like Land Raiders). The Aspect Warriors add a little close combat defense if they get chased down by enemy assault troops.

Small Unit:
6 Jet Bikes (1 as HQ)
Total: 6 stands. Extremely mobile, fast and cheap. These guys will swoop around behind detachments to catch fleeing enemies and will intercept enemy small units before they can cause trouble.

You could spend a rainy afternoon coming up with different combinations. When I play, I tend to look at what models I have, form units by separating them into piles and then worry about the point cost later. With enough experience, you don't need the unit descriptions in front of you and you will just have a good sense of what models are good at what kinds of jobs.

What are some more detachment examples?


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:14 pm 
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New players may also be wondering how to use the many different unit types in E40k. One of the units that is often confusing for new players is the infiltrator.

So, how do you use infiltrators?

Thanks to their larger deployment area, infiltrators are excellent scouts for seizing ground and revealing hidden markers ahead of your main force. They are also excellent flanking units, as they can range far from their parent detachment and swing around the sides and rear of an enemy formation. This allows you to catch enemy flankers (like a picket line) and encircle enemy detachments so that they are wiped out when they flee from combat. Infiltrators are the best unit for forming this "net" to catch fleeing enemies since they deploy well ahead of your army and have the massive 60cm command radius (which is enough space to be on either end of an enemy detachment from your main detachment, in effect completely encircling the target).

On a final note, I give Daemon Engines of Slaanesh the infiltrator special rule, bumping up their cost to 30 points. Not only does this bring them in line with the special abilities of other Daemon Engines, it is a perfect match for their description (see White Dwarf 190). Hell Knights, Striders and Scourges are deep strike units that hunt mercilessly in packs well behind enemy lines. Sounds like an infiltrator to me!

Edit: I should add two more uses for infiltrators. One, the extra movement can be invaluable when infiltrators come onto the table as late reserves, making up for their delayed arrival by joining the fighting as quickly as possible. On the other hand, if they start the game on the table, then the extra depolyment is incredibly useful for grabbing objectives early. For a very small investment in points, you can ramp up your army morale by holding the objectives from the very start of the game. This early advantage can pay dividends later, when both sides' morale is falling and you maintain a healthy lead in morale scores because of those early objectives.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:04 am 
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Thank you for your tactics about Infiltrators! Very useful, and very clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:34 pm 
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Very informative thanks for the post.

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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:28 pm 
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As far as building detachments, it kind of depends on the size of the game. I tend to build my detachments based on their SM2/TL counterparts, with an extra unit here and there. I really hate the 'mob' look of most detachments I see, and actually think throwing a bunch of random minis together actually hurts the performance of the detachment.

But in small games I might use all sorts of random minis. I am always tinkering with making detachments with leftovers from my bitz box for use in small games. I think you can create better background stories on why these units are together versus one that might be in a bigger game.

As far as infiltrators, yeah that is a really interesting view of them. If there is one thing that bothers me about Epic 40k, it is the 30cm command radius for the detachment, let alone extending that for infiltrators. There just isn't enough room on most tables to operate several detachments without them getting all up in each other with ranges like that.

Not that I ever spread out my units that much, which leads to another issue I have. Because the count of firepower directly affects the number of hit dice to roll, I don't spread my units out to cover other angles of fire like I did in earlier systems, because I want to be sure I hit my primary target with as much firepower as I can. It leads to a weird situation where I bunch up a group of units in a way that just seems really unrealistic and in turn makes it vulnerable to being counter attacked.

Lets say I have 5 Leman Russes driving around some ruins with a couple of enemy detachments nearby. In previous editions, I might commit the bulk of those Lemans to target one detachment, and maybe a couple to face the other I am expecting contact with. A lot of it has to do with their position and how far they move too. In those systems I don't mind spreading them out a bit, as I know exactly what weapons on each I can bring to bear.

However in Epic 40k, much of the actual firepower is lost. Meaning that if only one Leman Russ sees the second enemy detachment, in most situations I am only going to get to roll one dice. Its not a terrible thing, except that I know Leman Russes have a decent amount of firepower that is just not being used. So I would rather have all 5 fire on the same enemy detachment to give me 8 dice, even if it means I have to bunch them all together to do it, which makes them look ridiculous on the gaming board.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:56 pm 
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Thanks, glad it helped!

There are also some neat tricks to do with cavalry and jump pack infantry. These are useful units because they can more or less keep pace with vehicles in the detachment (particularly for Eldar Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders, who have a total speed of 30cm). Cavalry have a bit more armour, which helps them be a good harassing force for shooting, firefights and assaulting over open ground. Jump pack troops are excellent accompaniment for skimmer formations, as they can surprise the enemy by popping over hills and flanking through dangerous or even impassible terrain.

The next trick with cavalry and jump pack infantry is deep-striking in combat. This is when cavalry and jump pack troops leap past your front lines in an assault and strike deep into the enemy formation, engaging specific enemy units in melee. To do this, your assaulting formation should have infantry (or other relatively slow units) up front and cavalry or jump pack troops in the rear. When assaulting forward, move the ground infantry first to "lock up" enemy front line units in melee, kind of like in American football (you cannot assault "through" an unengaged enemy unit, so the front line forms the defensive line of the enemy detachment). With the enemy front line units tied up, you are now allowed to assault "through" them and strike at any unit hiding in the rear of the enemy detachment. Although any unit could do this, jump pack and cavalry are particularly good at this because they have an enormous charge range.

This is useful for a couple of reasons. It allows you to "assassinate" annoying enemy models like psykers and units with the disrupt ability, since only units in base to base contact can be killed in an assault. Since assaults ignore armour values, it is also a very useful way to get rid of heavily armoured units like Space Marine land raiders (which are annoyingly deadly at range, but extremely vulnerable in melee). Even if you lose the assault, you stand a very good chance at killing specific enemy models with deep-striking tactics.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:13 pm 
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KTG17 wrote:
As far as building detachments, it kind of depends on the size of the game. I tend to build my detachments based on their SM2/TL counterparts, with an extra unit here and there. I really hate the 'mob' look of most detachments I see, and actually think throwing a bunch of random minis together actually hurts the performance of the detachment.


That is definitely true... detachments shouldn't be TOO random. Each detachment should play a specific part in your overall plan of attack and should be well-designed for tackling that objective (of course, your plan of attack really depends entirely on what scenario you are playing and what enemy forces you will be facing). However, different unit types do compliment each other, and several unit types can be equally useful for accomplishing any one task. To that end, I like three or so unit types in most mid-sized detachment (to take advantage of unit combos).

Mixed detachments also hits the right buttons for me for another reason. It makes Epic 40k detachments more closely resemble motley Warhammer 40k armies (I am a huge Warhammer 40k 2nd edition fan and have armies for every faction). It also adds a layer of theme to your army. A Space Marine company is, organizationally, 6 Tactical Squads, 2 Assault Squads and 2 Devastator Squads. In the field, however, they form unique task forces that draw forces from across the Chapter. The Germans did this with Kampfgruppe ("battle groups") in WW2 (and the allies also did it on a more operational scale). I like the idea that, in the 41st millennium, troops in the field are also divided into specific task forces for individual operations.

KTG17 wrote:
Lets say I have 5 Leman Russes driving around some ruins with a couple of enemy detachments nearby. In previous editions, I might commit the bulk of those Lemans to target one detachment, and maybe a couple to face the other I am expecting contact with. A lot of it has to do with their position and how far they move too. In those systems I don't mind spreading them out a bit, as I know exactly what weapons on each I can bring to bear.

However in Epic 40k, much of the actual firepower is lost. Meaning that if only one Leman Russ sees the second enemy detachment, in most situations I am only going to get to roll one dice. Its not a terrible thing, except that I know Leman Russes have a decent amount of firepower that is just not being used. So I would rather have all 5 fire on the same enemy detachment to give me 8 dice, even if it means I have to bunch them all together to do it, which makes them look ridiculous on the gaming board.


True, but Firepower is linear in E40k so effectively it is the same as sending some Lemans to target one detachment and others to target a second enemy (you just have to figure out the math of firepower to dice for the target in question). In E40k there is also a tactic in doing this, since if you accomplish even one "hit" on any secondary targets, you deal a blast marker (which was not the case in SM2). In fact, dividing up fire is often the best way to min-max your blast marker distribution, since you only deal 1 blast marker whether your Firepower is 1 or whether it is 15 (kinda gamey, but there you go).


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:02 pm 
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Commander Karth wrote:
True, but Firepower is linear in E40k so effectively it is the same as sending some Lemans to target one detachment and others to target a second enemy (you just have to figure out the math of firepower to dice for the target in question). In E40k there is also a tactic in doing this, since if you accomplish even one "hit" on any secondary targets, you deal a blast marker (which was not the case in SM2). In fact, dividing up fire is often the best way to min-max your blast marker distribution, since you only deal 1 blast marker whether your Firepower is 1 or whether it is 15 (kinda gamey, but there you go).


Yeah I know what you are saying and have done it, its just feels like I am being shorted when a unit in a previous addition might have 2-3 different weapons to roll for, and in Epic 40k it might only give you one roll, or in some cases like Rhinos, none. So then it becomes a point to get as much bang for your buck and to hit a primary target with everything.

And I respect what Epic 40k is trying to do. Vast amounts of ammo is fired and little of it hits anyone during a battle, and that loss of dice represents that. And had I never played AT/SM1 and SM2/TL, this probably wouldn't bother me. But even in huge games I had some amazing micro battles between individual or small group of units over a key landmark that I just don't see happen in Epic 40k. Or Epic A for that matter. Because of the nature of long range attacks followed up with assaults which tend to end absolutely, there is very little lengthy struggles between the same units. And again, I know they systems are trying to speed up game play and each assault is like one game of 40k, but they just feel hollow. There is definitely some loss of control and it makes me feel a little short-changed.

I have a lot of respect for Epic 40k, it was a well thought out and revolutionary game system. It is far more complex than most casual players understand, and just about everything that happens in a game can be justified (winning an assault while losing more units for example). But there is just something about the firepower rules and I just can't think of an alternative that would help explain my position more.

Going back to detachments, it would have been cool to release some kind of Epic 40k Codex List for ideas on standardized detachments for the armies, with the understanding that their creation is fluid and can certainly be modified. But a Eldar Warhost would look like X, or a Ork Mob on foot might look like Y.

I think that is the biggest thing holding noobs back when they get the game. You have rules for a ton of minis, with few pictures of any, and barely any recommendation on how to use them in the rulebooks except for buying into 40k to find out. And the detachments in the scenarios were cool to show old players how different things could be, I dont think they helped new ones at all. Games of 3 mobs versus 3 other mobs is stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:52 am 
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KTG17 wrote:
There is definitely some loss of control and it makes me feel a little short-changed.


I see what you mean... In SM2, you would have 10 dice, and even with some big penalties to the roll, you still might get 10 hits (or close to it). In E40k, you have 10 firepower but only get 5 dice to roll, because the table assumes you already suffered the average number of misses. If you accept that abstraction in the name of speeding up the game, then it's all good, but it's definitely still an abstraction.

KTG17 wrote:
Going back to detachments, it would have been cool to release some kind of Epic 40k Codex List for ideas on standardized detachments for the armies, with the understanding that their creation is fluid and can certainly be modified. But a Eldar Warhost would look like X, or a Ork Mob on foot might look like Y.


That would have been awesome. I'd happily pick up codexes for E40k. Sadly it was never meant to be, but that should absolutely be the next community project!


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:05 am 
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KTG17 wrote:
So then it becomes a point to get as much bang for your buck and to hit a primary target with everything.


I should add that this is a good point. One tactic may be dividing fire to increase the number of blast markers you to distribute (to multiple enemy detachments), but the reverse is also true. If you focus fire on a single detachment, you have a better chance of bringing them down to half strength (or destroying them outright) and you will be putting many more blast markers on a single target (which are then harder to get rid of in the rally phase). True you could put 1 blast markers on each of 5 enemy detachments, but it would be incredibly easy to get rid of them in the rally phase, while placing just 3 blast markers on a single enemy detachment would be much harder to shed.

Focusing fire is also incredibly important when you are shooting before an enemy detachment has gotten a chance to fire that turn, as you will reduce the amount of firepower coming back at you (from casualties and blast markers).


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:12 am 
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There's also the gamble of whether you'll add any blast markers at all if you divide your fire. You may be able to do more total, but if your divided fire brings you down enough that you have to get a hit to add a BM, you might not do anything. I like the balance of this.

andy


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Well sometimes you might not have any option but to divide your fire if some units can't all target the same enemy formation. And to prevent that from happening, you will see yourself bunching up your units. That's what I find myself doing and I hate it, because you are right, generally inflicting one blast market on a formation is worthless, unless you have other detachments that can add to that too.

The one thing that I dislike about this, and especially in Epic A, is the lack of opportunity fire for individual units. On a map at HQ, yes they can say "Hit the enemy's 10th Division with our own 6th" and not care about the individual battles fought along the way, which is what I see Epic A doing. Which would be fine in a counter-based hex game.

But in reality, even in the scale we are playing, units wouldn't generally be able to pick out the difference between opposing formations on a battlefield. There would just firing at the enemy. Usually targets of opportunity. I have never gotten over this with Epic A, and one of the main reasons I ditched the game in play testing. So at least I am relieved I can do something like it in Epic 40k, as there are instances in every game that a units within the same formation may not all see the same enemy formation, but are able to see separate ones, and this does not translate into "having to choose between the two makes for a better game" as quoted by Jervis.

In a counter based game, yes. But were I care about the position of individual models on a 3-D board? No. I absolutely hate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Player
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:35 pm 
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Some very good points re:EA and I have to admit, while I think EA has some nifty ideas, as a game, it's not really for me. It just never felt "complete" like Epic 40k does to me now.

How about Titan tactics? This is a wide open field, so I won't claim to even begin to say the final word on how you should use Titans. From my experience, however, they can be both immensely powerful and immensely vulnerable. Against small, scattered detachments, their shields make them nearly impervious to harm, while they can dish out firepower, firefights and assaults to send the enemy packing.

The key to taking them down is to surround and concentrate fire on them (or counter with Titans of your own, which can actually be incredibly risky since both friendly and enemy Titans tend to be bristling with Titan-killing Super Heavy Weapons). Surrounding a Titan and pouring on 20 or 30 firepower for a turn or two will see these leviathans disappear in a flash of explosions. Thus, defeating them is really all about army formation and maneuver. In other words, ALWAYS support your detachments! Similarly, you should dedicate a large infantry unit to accompany your own Titans and ward off enemies from getting too close. Assaults in particular (which ignore armour and shields) can be deadly, as enemy troops storm the gangways and gundecks of your stomping monstrosities.

There are a lot of benefits to taking down these big boys, so it should be a priority. Not only do they represent a potentially huge loss in points and army morale, but more often then not, destroying them will give your army a critical morale boost. Titans are slow, so you will have some time before they are really engaged in the battle, but you should have a plan two or three turns into the game to knockout threatening enemy Titans.

I for one really, really, really enjoy and appreciate the design of Titans in the game. The designers could have just made them really tough, so that every game ended with all the infantry dead and none of the Titans even scratched. But they didn't do this. Because of Super Heavy Weapons (many of which deal automatic critical hits), Titans are actually more like glass cannons on the battlefield. Incredibly destructive and imposing, but with some glaring Achilles heels, so that every game ends with most infantry AND most Titans wiped out. That is soooo much more satisfying and entertaining... Every game has pivotal moments and massive explosions!


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:59 pm 
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War Engines is the one area I think Epic 40k hands down beats out all the other systems, save Adeptus Titanicus.

Its amazing that you have enough options to lightly customize a titan, have some variances in situations in how it takes damage, and have all the info you need on one small page. As much as I love SM2/TL, the rules for titans can be a little ridiculous and tedious at times, whereas in EpicA they are just too basic. Titans are supposed to be really imposing machines, and their presence is felt and feared on the battlefield, and everything would be aware of what one was doing. So I think there has to be some excitement around what a titan can do, and what might happen to it.

I haven't played any Epic 40k games with a ton of war engines tho. The most I can remember on one side was two.


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 Post subject: Re: Tactics for New Players
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:22 pm 
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All-Titan games are awesome in Epic 40k—I highly recommend trying it out. In fact, here is a battle report so you can see how it goes: http://wpggamegeeks.blogspot.ca/2013/06 ... eport.html

The key is the super heavy weapons. They "scale up" with Titans so that you can easily turn the most mammoth war engine to hot slag within a few game turns at most, just like in Adeptus Titanicus. In fact, I really think Adeptus Titanicus II was unnecessary (although I enjoy those rules too!), as you can easily do AT within Epic 40k by just using all Titans. Like you say, the damage and attack rules are just that dynamic—they make Titan games a ton of fun and effortless to resolve.


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