Read it and weep.... |
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Reaversbane
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Post subject: Read it and weep....  Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:20 pm |
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I could well believe that CS, especially as that is almost true in my case, and I actually buy Epic figs. I currently use about a can of spray a week, which is ?24 a month (well, less because I dont pay ?6 for a can, but you get the idea), and that probably is not much less than I spend on epic each month.
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vanvlak
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:41 pm |
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Can't even get GW spray here - the local agent doesn't want to stock 100 spray cans, which is the minimum order level per colour. So I use car spray cans - cheaper too. And, if chosen carefully, just as good.
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Reaversbane
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:20 pm |
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100 Minimum!?! That seems nuts. My local shop usually just gets about 8 cans a month (yes, I use about half their supply...even tho' there are about 30 other wargamers (at least) in the area  ), and Im sure they have got less than that before now. I suppose you probably have to buy them with other stuff tho'.
I am kinda dreading a price rise on spray cans, that would really eat into my budget! 
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netepic
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:44 pm |
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GW needs a budget army for each game.
A plastic pack of pre-assembled, cheap and nasty troops. Like Airfix troopers or something, that would bring in more new players, then the experienced ones could be seduced into buying the higher price bands for the collectors goods.
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Reaversbane
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:13 pm |
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In theory I like the idea, but I dont know of any company that offers something like that (but I could just be ignorant). The editorial in Harbinger 15 made an interesting comparison of costs of wargames with other leisure activities. Most wargames (even 40K) can be started with an initial investment of around ?100 (epic especially...see TO6G for details ...shameless plug...), maybe a little more. That compares OK with a PS2 really (for instance).
If we consider Privateer Press (Warmachine) and Rackham (Confrontation) to be GW's peers, then in some ways the price rise kinda makes sense. GW will be slightly more expensive than these companies, because of the other services tey offer. GW have hundreds of stores around the globe, offering a place to play games with nicely painted figs and terrain (as someone who lived in Hong Kong for a while I can say that in some places space is at a premium). These stores do cost a lot to run. It doesnt totally justify their prices, but it puts them in a favourable light to other companies.
I almost can't believe I just played devil's advocate...:p
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primarch
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:46 pm |
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Hi!
I would agree with PG that fanatic sales, even if they were good from perspective of us the consumer or comparing with the previous low baseline, for them, in context of the bigger sellers (core games), is indeed a drop in the bucket and thus not worth resource allocation. This goes to the core of my early arguements on what GW constitutes "success". As I suspected sucess means "core level sales". Which for epic, as marketed and supported is unrealistic in extreme.
The real question is, how can they think those games will ever reach the level of the core games with less than core game support? I assume its a question GW will not bother with.
You get out what you put in. SM/TL was a core game because it was supported like one.
Games "die" when the company treats them as dead.
Primarch
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primarch
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:48 pm |
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Hi!
CS, I could believe that quote. According to Jervis, Fanatic as a whole is 5% of what GW makes, thats all games they make. So that leaves 95% for all other GW endevours.
Far cry from the days epic, on its own accounted for 7-10% of GW in the US (1995-1996).
Primarch
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Markconz
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:35 pm |
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| Quote (primarch @ 07 2005 Feb.,19:48) | Hi!
CS, I could believe that quote. According to Jervis, Fanatic as a whole is 5% of what GW makes, thats all games they make. So that leaves 95% for all other GW endevours.
Far cry from the days epic, on its own accounted for 7-10% of GW in the US (1995-1996).
Primarch |
The share of GW sales compared to other GW sales is not that important IMHO. 10 years ago there was Epic and bloodbowl, now there are well supported Inquisitor, Mordheim, Necromunda, Warmaster and Gothic systems. 10 years ago the ranges for Warhammer and 40k were smaller, and there was not a whole new Lord of the Rings system supported by 3 blockbuster movies.
Expecting epic to regain the market share it had 10 years ago, before all the other game systems and ranges existed, is unrealistic. Unless you are wanting all the other game systems to flop like Man of War and Dark Future? 
Also GW is expanding globally, you do that initially with a few well known brands - your Big Mac and Quarter Pounder, or Warhammer and Warhammer 40k Space Marines. Not a dozen variants to confuse people (you expect mothers buying Christmas presents to differentiate between 40k eldar and epic40k eldar?).
The only important statistic from our point of view is longitudinal epic sales. How does now compare to a decade ago? Anyone actually know this besides GW?
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primarch
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:44 pm |
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Hi!
The only important statistic from our point of view is longitudinal epic sales. How does now compare to a decade ago? Anyone actually know this besides GW?
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That would be very interesting to know.
Primarch
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pixelgeek
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:46 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 07 2005 Feb.,11:46) | | The real question is, how can they think those games will ever reach the level of the core games with less than core game support? I assume its a question GW will not bother with. |
I think this is the core of the problem
There is a much smaller market for these games and I think someone crunched some numbers at GW and determined that the effort to increase the sales enough to make those games more than a total 5% of GW annual sales wasn't worth the money
They certainly could have promoted the games more but one has to ask, if you are a GW marketing geek, what the best investment in their marketing budget is. Expanding a line of games with a smaller market or trying to expand the existing large market of WFB and 40K games?
If Fanatic is 5% of their sales then a doubling of Fanatics gross (and imagine what effort that would take) is still nothing compared to expanding 40K gaming by 10% or marketing a new LotR expansion.
The core problem is that Fanatic is part of GW.
There is no way that the income that Fanatic makes (even less when viewed as individual game systems) is in any way significant when compared to the numbers that 40K and WFB bring in. So the company as a division of GW is ultimately doomed the second anyone does a cost benefit analysis of Fanatic.
Mind you I can't see any way for Fanatic to not be a part of GW due to Intellectual Property issues and production issues.
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Freshmetal
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:43 am |
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Hi,
Well if GW makes a load of games, but then gives away the rules for free, fails to advertise the range, doesn't support the miniatures in-store and constantly jerks around the 'devoted' by making promises and then breaking them; why does it surprise anyone that the sales figures are really poor?
It'll change one day, but I'm not holding my breath.
Cheers,
Freshmetal
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primarch
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:52 pm |
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Hi!
Good points PG. I agree that it does not seem feasible from an IP stance to "let loose" fanatic as its own company. Although quite frankly I dont see anyother way the games they support could evolve unless they were autonomous.
Its disheartening, but it seems fanatic games are condemed to patchy lackluster support for the foreseeable future.
Primarch
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deathlynx
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:05 pm |
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Personally I'm once again contemplating switching over to alternate game companies/systems...Fortunately Mongoose has recently published a model game for my favorite type (space combat) based on my favorite TV show (B5)...I'm hopinh to find A Call to Arms will catch on...Not that I have anything against BFG...To the contrary I love the game but support has been lacking for a year or so...
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: Read it and weep.... Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:08 am |
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