Warmaster strangensss |
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Markconz
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss  Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:53 pm |
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So we gave WM the other day, and some of the rule mechanisms seemed a little strange... is it really the case that a unit that wins a combat can keep plowing its way forward through every unit in its path in a single turn - potentially through an entire army??
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:51 am |
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Hi Markconz,
Yes. That is possible.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:29 am |
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Another Reason not to play it. 
I have no interest in any "Wargame" where a single "power unit" can win the whole game. If I want to play HeroHammer I will just stick to D&D.
dafrca
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vanvlak
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:36 am |
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Hi Dafrca, not quite - there are good units, but they're usually quite expensive in points; and there are no uber units. Characters are crucuial - not because they're fantastically powerful invincible-weapon wielding armoured monsters, but because their only function (unless they're riding expensive beasties) is to provide leadership - as any realistic character should. A huge formation is made up of several units: heady with victory, they could barge through an army, which, incidentally, could be arrayed in two lines, which might not be up to strength, especially if the attacking formation includes a number of hard-hitting unit. Think of Prince Rupert ECW sort of actions.
Heh - this is a weird role for me - I don't usually defend games, as either (1) they've themselves to blame for criticism e.g. 40K or (2) I don't play them, in which case I can't very well take a position e.g. Inquisitor, but there are two games which I've played for which I'd stick my neck out - and these are Warmaster and Man o'War. Sadly, I've only ever played a couple of less than 400 point games of Epic long, long ago, and no one game of BFG, so I just rely on anyone's good advice here. I've not played much WM, come to think of it, but the little I've seen speaks volumes for the other little men.
Cheers Dafrca, and sorry for the rant - nice to get a little exercise sometimes! 
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Markconz
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:29 pm |
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Vanvlak, I don't have a problem with very powerful units.... what I don't like is that the entire enemy army is effectively paralysed while they hack their way through unit after unit - even enemy units poised to threaten the flank and rear of the uber unit are unable to charge, they sit their waiting for the uber unit to finish a potentially infinite number of combats - then they might get a turn....
To someone used to historical ancient, renaissance and napoleonic gaming (hell even any other GW system...) it seems crazy. Don't worry about any flank protection or support... just line up your uber unit and smash everything in front of it while the enemy supporting troops sit there stupidly unable to do anything in some sort of time stasis.
I doubt we will be playing Warmaster again.
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vanvlak
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:01 pm |
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Hi Markconz - how about counteracting with your own uber-unit? If the two uber units meet, they probably won't be hacking through each other in one extended turn....
I still have to admit I'm no expert, of course - and that I still like Warmaster. In fact, Markconz - er - are you giving away the miniatures? Or selling really REALLY cheap? Seriously, though, I think you should give it another outing.
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:51 pm |
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It's not really about uber-units, but about one unit on a roll.
I had a unit of Brettonian knights that came in on a skeleton infantry line's flank and just about rolled up the entire infantry front.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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vanvlak
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:07 pm |
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| Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 21 2004 Dec.,17:51) | It's not really about uber-units, but about one unit on a roll.
I had a unit of Brettonian knights that came in on a skeleton infantry line's flank and just about rolled up the entire infantry front.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak. |
Ah, that's why I never noticed it. Rolls are something which happen to other people. ALthough I am a bit of a roll, at the moment - mostly beyond wargames, at any rate - but I won't hijack this thread.  with a halo.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:52 pm |
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This may make some people happy, I guess that is why we are all into different things. For me, I do not want to base all my armies around one Umber unit and then, for the most part, buy the rest of the army just to "fill the table".
Lucky moments aside, there is no place in my way of gaming that should turn the game into "he who man/maxes best wins". I like to see the need for tactics and forethought. Combined arms or well thought out wargame armies. I dropped out of Herohammer for the same reason.
But, if that is what floats your boat, I say "have a great game".
dafrca
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Magnus
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:31 pm |
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| Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 21 2004 Dec.,17:51) | It's not really about uber-units, but about one unit on a roll.
I had a unit of Brettonian knights that came in on a skeleton infantry line's flank and just about rolled up the entire infantry front.
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Uhm... and why is this bad? Heavy cavalry hitting infantry lines in the flank tends to have pretty much the effects you describe... that's why you don't want to get hit in the flank in the first place....
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Markconz
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:39 am |
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| Quote (Magnus @ 22 2004 Dec.,12:31) | | Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 21 2004 Dec.,17:51) | It's not really about uber-units, but about one unit on a roll.
I had a unit of Brettonian knights that came in on a skeleton infantry line's flank and just about rolled up the entire infantry front.
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Uhm... and why is this bad? Heavy cavalry hitting infantry lines in the flank tends to have pretty much the effects you describe... that's why you don't want to get hit in the flank in the first place.... |
The trouble is the knights kill the entire army in one turn... a unit or two a turn like most games maybe, but not the whole army. ?Furthermore imagine the skeletons had a second line in reserve - there is a unit of brettonian knights with its flank exposed moving across the front of this second line. However, the second line never gets to charge this exposed flank... This is exactly what happened to me in my first WM game a few years ago - I charged cavalry into the flank of the enemies first line and rolled it up - this despite there being a second enemy line in reserve which was just cm away - sitting there watching unable to do anything about the enemy right in front of them.
I assumed I had played that game wrong... I can't believe it is actually supposed to work that way!!
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dafrca
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:17 am |
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| Quote (Markconz @ 22 2004 Dec.,19:39) | | The trouble is the knights kill the entire army in one turn... a unit or two a turn like most games maybe, but not the whole army. ? |
That says it all for me. 
dafrca
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vanvlak
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:23 am |
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Ummm how big a unit of knights, and how big a line of Skellies? And you should play against me - nothing ever works, however great the odds. Oh, this applies to all games systems. *sighs*
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k176034
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:31 am |
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Is that when you hit Light or Heavy Infantry?!?
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Warmaster strangensss Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:41 am |
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Even a Terminator det. teleporting in is not invincible ... well almost !!! 
"Beam Me Up !" 