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Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)

 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:21 pm 
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Hey, Quick question , in the lists found in the beginning of this post, the Railgun Hammerhead has Burst Cannons , instead of the smart missile system carried by the rest of the Heads. But in the NetEA tournament pack list, the Railheads too have the smart missile system, http://tp.net-armageddon.org/army-lists/tau.html
Is it right to assume the NetEA tournament pack list is the up to date and correct version (Dunno if there are more things that differ, just noticed this now)


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:14 am 
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Cyguns wrote:
Hey, Quick question , in the lists found in the beginning of this post, the Railgun Hammerhead has Burst Cannons , instead of the smart missile system carried by the rest of the Heads. But in the NetEA tournament pack list, the Railheads too have the smart missile system, http://tp.net-armageddon.org/army-lists/tau.html
Is it right to assume the NetEA tournament pack list is the up to date and correct version (Dunno if there are more things that differ, just noticed this now)
Thanks for catching that Cygun. You're correct, all Hamerhead variants should have smart missile system and seeker missiles. I'll get that cleaned up and roll out the proper form. I'll roll it out with the Vior'la 2.2 list. I just want to get at least one more play test in with it to test out a couple proposed changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:48 am 
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Hey, the Hammerheads Railguns, still have the Burst cannons , in place of the smart missilesystem in these PDFs

Nice work on the Vior`la list

Have an awesome day


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:48 am 
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That's not a mistake - that's intentional. Railheads intentionally have worse burst cannons to compensate for their main gun being so much better (even with the extra cost). It's not unusual for variant battle tanks to have different sponson weapons - think Predators and Predator Annihilators.

It's been burst cannons railheads for several years or more and is the same in the Epic-UK Tau list that unusually mirrors the Net-EA list rather than doing a list variant of their own. Please leave it as is!


Last edited by GlynG on Mon May 13, 2019 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:33 am 
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Well, if you read my question three posts up, the reason I say this , is because I found an inconsistency between the PDF lists found here and the one found on NETEAs tournament pack lists. On that list all hammerheads are grouplisted and as such according to that list, all of them has smart missilesystems. So I asked here what version was correct, and the answer given me then, was that indeed all of them are meant to have smart missilesystems. Now I don’t know if that is a fairly new change then? Or if it’s not actually true? In either case , the important thing in my opinion is that what ever they have they have the same on both lists.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:56 pm 
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The files I had, including the 2019 Net EA TP, the Railheads are listed as still having the seeker missiles. However, I dove back through the forum and the list's earlier iterations and it looks like Railheads switched from seeker missiles to burst cannons in the jump from 6.6 approved to 6.71 developmental. I assumed it was then approved at some point by the ERC as it shows up in each subsequent list, including the 6.8 approved at the top of the thread. I would agree that the Railheads are intended to have burst cannons and will confirm with the ERC. I'm guessing with some of the AC shifts and requests, documents got crossed.

In that vein, if anyone from Epic UK has the word format documents of the list, I'd appreciate if you could send it along to me rather then need to reinvent the wheel and reconstruct it from scratch.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:55 pm 
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I asked Dave to take a look into the ERC archives to see when the Missile to Burst cannon ("M2BC") change was implemented. It looks like this change may have never been formally voted on, hence the state of the tournament pack. My guess is that this was such a minor change, folks over looked it in the debate regarding the lance rule.

Either way, there seems to be the support and testing in place for the change. I'll include that with the next submission to the ERC which will also address proposed changes to the Manta.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:52 pm 
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I've finally had the chance to set up my Tau, on my very own Game Table and see them get crushed by some Orks! It was wonderful!!! I had to play what I had managed to paint, scrapping together 3000p as best I could, and did some fairly sweet misstakes, CO-fireing away just for the fun of trying it out! Learned a lot! and now it's back to the drawing board and painting table!! =)&
I was wondering how you guys play the Tau Jet Packs. Since they follow the same rules as regular Jump Packs , they suffer a dangerous terrain test when landing in such, BUT I was wondering about the extra 10 cm at the end?

On the UK "version" or the PDF found there , they have a little "fluff" description to go with all the Tau special rules , there you can read Tau Pounce and strafe away from they enemy..., and in my mind, the extra 10cm is a ground level hoovering type of thingy, so?

What my ramblings boil down to is, If I jump a forest , shoot the crap out of some orks on the other side, can I use the extra 10 cm to back up into the forrest without suffering a DTT? How do you play it?


(oh, and if I may? what are, or where can I find, these suggested changes to the Manta mentioned above?)

cheers =)


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:23 am 
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The extra move is "a move" and follows all the normal move rules, so yes they would have to take a dangerous terrain test if they landed in it.

It's worth noting though that in the third phase list the units with jet packs are infantry, and I suspect in most people's games terrain that's dangerous to infantry (marshes, rivers) is quite uncommon. In particular forests are not dangerous for infantry.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Quote:
(oh, and if I may? what are, or where can I find, these suggested changes to the Manta mentioned above?)

cheers =)


The trial version is listed in the Vior'la list. We're looking at either a 50 or 75 or reduction in cost and increasing the rail cannons from one at 2+ to 2 at 3+.

I think they still suffer from same point sink as many expensive war engines, but this helps them be a bit more palatable and useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:04 pm 
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Re: the jump pack question, the units in the core Tau list are all infantry units. Infantry (with or without jump packs) don't take dangerous terrain tests for entering woods or buildings, the only time they would is if ending a move on a minefield.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:57 pm 
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Thank you,in retrospect it’s quite embarrassingly clear xD , for some reason when reading the jump pack rules I just naturally thought of terrain dangerous to AVs for whatever reason. Imagining a big branch to the balls on they way down! But ofc , dangerous to THEM as inf (face palm) ! So much rules spinning in my head atm as I’m breaking back into the game. Put my tiger sharks on a CAP order last game. My dear brother either let it go or just didn’t realize that’s not possible , they were quite effective tho xD thanks again for putting up with noob questions.

I understand the drones to the XV15s once gained teleport when bought as an upgrade to a Stealth formation, But that this didn’t make the final cut. The upgrade then seems pretty counter synergetic during current circumstances. Or has anyone gotten some good use out of it?

Even tho the list is Approved, apparently changes are being suggested (the Manta for one). Are the stealthy drones fate forever sealed? Or could the XV15s perhaps replace it with a different upgrade option that would make more sense? Maybe borrow from the Vior’la list , perhaps put up a single upgrade option of replacing two XV15s with 2 XV95s in a bundle for 75p ? That would make em fewer in numbers while still more expensive than on the Vior’la list, but still a rather nice upgrade, maybe too nice ( greedy noobs I know)


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:11 am 
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Cyguns wrote:
Thank you,in retrospect it’s quite embarrassingly clear xD , for some reason when reading the jump pack rules I just naturally thought of terrain dangerous to AVs for whatever reason. Imagining a big branch to the balls on they way down! But ofc , dangerous to THEM as inf (face palm) ! So much rules spinning in my head atm as I’m breaking back into the game. Put my tiger sharks on a CAP order last game. My dear brother either let it go or just didn’t realize that’s not possible , they were quite effective tho xD thanks again for putting up with noob questions.

I understand the drones to the XV15s once gained teleport when bought as an upgrade to a Stealth formation, But that this didn’t make the final cut. The upgrade then seems pretty counter synergetic during current circumstances. Or has anyone gotten some good use out of it?

Even tho the list is Approved, apparently changes are being suggested (the Manta for one). Are the stealthy drones fate forever sealed? Or could the XV15s perhaps replace it with a different upgrade option that would make more sense? Maybe borrow from the Vior’la list , perhaps put up a single upgrade option of replacing two XV15s with 2 XV95s in a bundle for 75p ? That would make em fewer in numbers while still more expensive than on the Vior’la list, but still a rather nice upgrade, maybe too nice ( greedy noobs I know)


No worries! It's still a good question, just maybe more applicable to the Vior'la list where the heavy suits can jump into terrain and in that case, would need to make the tests.

The 3rd sphere list is pretty stable and the drone issue is resolved. There's the outstanding issue of rectifying the railhead secondary weapon, which appears to be more of an accidental oversight from the approval process. There's also the manta issue, which is rebalancing. I don't see there being any new units introduced or abilities added to what I feel the community sees as a decently performing and stable list.



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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:18 am 
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I'd consider using Stealth Suits with Gun Drones occasionally. They don't have to teleport just because they have the ability to - they could use their Scout ability to deploy close to the table centerline and go after garrisoned enemy turn one instead, avoiding the chance of initial blast markers.

Maybe check in with Yme-loc who used to AC the Tau list for many years? I'm 99% sure Railheads having Burst Cannons as a secondary weapon is intentional and a balancing downside compared to the other weapon fits and no accident. There's no obligation for all variants of a tank to have the same sponson weapons - e.g. Predators and Annihilators or Leman Russ and Demolishers.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Army List vs 6.8 (Approved)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:30 pm 
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GlynG wrote:
Maybe check in with Yme-loc who used to AC the Tau list for many years? I'm 99% sure Railheads having Burst Cannons as a secondary weapon is intentional and a balancing downside compared to the other weapon fits and no accident. There's no obligation for all variants of a tank to have the same sponson weapons - e.g. Predators and Annihilators or Leman Russ and Demolishers.


I went back through the old developmental interations of the list and compared them to the approved version. I also checked with with the ERC's voting record.

I cant say 100%, but it looks to me like it was a smaller balance change that was rolled out a few versions prior to the final list presented for approval. When it was put forward, the change wasn't identified or voted on by the ERC.

Once the Vior'la list stats are all finalized, I want to put forward a couple revisions to 3rd sphere to the ERC including the railhead burst cannons, hopefully the changes to the Manta, and the 1/50, 2/75 crisis suit upgrades.

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