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Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu lists

 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:17 am 
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Great to hear how all this is progressing. I also fully endorse Rug the second’s development and playing skills (especially with guard).

Wasn’t at Britcon but it doesn’t look like Krieg stomped everyone there and the changes made already this year by epic UK definitely affect them at 3k. I guess at 4k the issue is that the warhound pack becomes viable so you can get a fast ground unit into the army. I’ll chat to Tim at the EEC anyway. Personally, I think the epic UK lists are pretty balanced following the tweaks to flamers and Dark Angels, I’d rather we improved some of the weaker lists.

With Gorgon cos, one army has to have the best assault unit in the game and they really aren’t without their weaknesses. Yes, they’re an auto include, and not fully thematic but as mentioned we have Baran for defensive guard and I’d rather play against Krieg any day than siegemasters. Plus, powerful assault units will almost always be an auto include in competitive lists.

Shame the ruling on warhounds for netea won’t be in place for the EEC (unless it goes through by tomorrow) but totally appreciate these things take time. I for one will not be running them again after last year at this year’s event. However, I can well understand if people want to give me a taste of my own medicine this year :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:45 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:19 am 
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Any update on the proposals to the ERC?

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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:30 am 
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The ERC has not gotten any proposals to vote for from Rug. EpicUK are testing the things that has been mentioned on the thread i think.

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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:07 am 
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DKOK and Baran changes have been put forward

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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:39 am 
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mordoten wrote:
The ERC has not gotten any proposals to vote for from Rug. EpicUK are testing the things that has been mentioned on the thread i think.


If you look back through the thread to the 13th August I mentioned what was sent to the ERC.


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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Yah i saw it, was just requesting an update.

Thanks for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:45 pm 
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So now Baran has to pay hydra platoon prices for half as many shots on an immobile LV that takes up a support slot in a one-for-one list because... why?
Who got a hair across his butt from getting his pet air assault shot down facing the siege masters that felt this needed to be done? Next time teleport them in rather than f-ing up a list like this, friend.
The flak battery takes up a support slot, so part of its price comes from the infantry. Besides, if I want three of them, that’s three other support fm that I can’t take. If I face a non-air heavy list, then I struggle to find a use for them, and rightly so. The tough choice was already built into the list without this “fix”.

This is exhibit A of how the NDC “process” was in large part answers to questions nobody was really asking. What was the common thread to the dozens of changes? They all started to look like fixes to units that 1-2 people globally didn’t think “worked” well enough. Throw enough of those against the wall and some of them are bound to stick.

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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:30 pm 
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You're not the first to have that kind of reaction to this. The idea was to make the very abusable two-for-one formation (not one-for-one) 100pts AA formation less abusable, like E-UK has already done. I was the one that proposed this change to the NDC, and I also proposed and argued that Baran should get something in return for having that particular thing taken away from them. Sadly only the AA nerf made it through the two NDC votes and the ERC.

I don't really expect you to agree with me, but I'd argue that the good news is that Baran should now have a very good case for making the list more fun to play in ways that doesn't depend on them coming loaded with 20 activations (which happens to be distinctly un-fun for most opponents). Any suggestions?

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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Oops, my bad on the core/support ratio. I must’ve been thinking LatD.

I’ve had a Baran army for years. I’ve done very well at times and been thoroughly trounced at others. I don’t have any suggestions mostly because I don’t see a problem to correct. I think the line between “potentially challenging/annoying to face” and “abusable” has been blurred here.

Baran will always rely on numbers. It’s one of their few strengths, having strategy 1 and small/slow/ineffectual core formations. The Baran player has to figure out how to build his castle while preserving enough force to grab objectives when it matters. His opponent has to figure out how to peel back the onion (to mix metaphors for a sec) to get at his objectives. It’s a different challenge than posed by most other armies. Changing the points cost for flak isn’t going to change that. It just makes Baran more vulnerable to air.

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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:33 pm 
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I'm looking at flak batteries in the NEA baran list and they're 150pts. Looking at the original GW list and they're 125pts.

Apologies if its obvious but where are they 100pts?

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 Post subject: Re: Results from the NDC Step 3 vote regarding Imperial Gu l
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:13 pm 
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The change has already been made to 150 in the current tournament pack.

They were 100 points 2014 tournament pack

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