Andrew_NZ wrote:
CarlixTomix wrote:
For example the lack of tetras and the nerf to Riptides felt very wrong.
I also am rather less enamoured with the drop in ranged capability with the Riptides. Firepower in the 30-45 cm range is almost all gone. Lance is very situational in power projection out to 30 cm and 15 cm is very close before the MW cuts in.
A lot people have given me bad feedback on this and it might be considered a nerf and also a big change, so that's fair. I personally think it's at the same level of power as the former version (Matts ie). You have to get a lot closer though, so that's of course a drawback. But to me lance is MW light.
My reasoning for the changes was that Epic has typically tried to be true to the actual miniatures when it comes to which weapons they have represented in the game. At least the original lists. I'm thinking of Steel Legion for instance. Good examples are the leman russ, chimera and baneblade to name a few. Matts former version was rediciolous from this perspective. I will not introduce it with the same weapons again, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss it of course.
The Vior'la list also had (has?) a bit of a problem of MW/TK spam. I wanted to limit this and that's why I chose the 15 cm MW range. To get longer range MW you have to go to the support formations. I think this is a good thing.
Another consideration was the R'varna. I really like the UK lists heavy suit formation. And I wanted to differentiate between the three different units. Both of them (riptide + R'varna) having all their attacks at 45 cm seemed boring and a lost opportunity.
If we were to find a solution were we get the Riptide back to 45cm only, then I'd likey want to remove the R'varna from the list as they are just to much alike. Perhaps we should start a seperate thread for this discussion.
Andrew_NZ wrote:
CarlixTomix wrote:
I wouldn't miss Crisis suits, though, as they see wasteful and underwhelming.
The upgrade with AT6+ on the Plasma Rifle along with an extra two stands for 75 points is probably enough to help the Crisis Cadre to punch near its weight.
I could live without them, but they are iconic and several have requested their reinclusion. We given the above two small boost. At the moment I think that's enough.
Andrew_NZ wrote:
CarlixTomix wrote:
I like having more big battlesuits to pick other than Riptides, but the lack of proxies makes me unable to use as many as I would want to. But I don't see a legit reason to make mixed squad of differentiate battlesuits, why type it in a way that lets you pick one of each heavy suit?
My current test lists add a longer range battle suit to at least ensure the formation can at lay a BM if they can't get close enough otherwise. It is also letting me vary formation costs to ensure the BTS is unique and a good option, as well as adjusting overall points costs to soak up odd 25 point leftovers.
I can see reasons for mixing the Y'vahra and Riptide. But I agree on the R'varna with it's slow movement and more static support feel. It doesn't mix well with the other two. I have been contemplating mixing it with the Stormsurge in the support section, it does looks to me like a more natural fit.
Andrew_NZ wrote:
CarlixTomix wrote:
Skyrays feel terribly obsolete. Not only the skysweep squad, but also the skyray upgrade. Take an AA shot out of him and half the price, I would rather have two fire warrior cafres with a skyray with one AA shot each, than only one with two shots, to cover more ground. IG's hunters cost 50 point and cover 45 cm, I would rather have one of those.
I have always thought that the Skyray for 100 points was one of the design weaknesses for the Tau list. It costs over the odds to get ground AA since the Tau emphasise the Air Caste use of Fighters/Bombers/Air Power. The extra features of the Skyray which are part of the cost can rarely all be used: close range AP ignore cover, markerlights, etc. The price drop to 75 points on the proposed Epic UK list is attractive/appropriate.
I actually agree please test them at 75pts if you want. I found it on par with the hunter, the extra benefit of its markerlights are usually hard to utilize as one doesn't really want to close with the enemy with skyrays.
I chose not to lower the cost like the UK to use a cautious approach. There's so many new things in the list compared to third phase so wanted to limit changes to shared stuff, especially the ones with markerlights and I've already been experimenting with the pathfinders.
Andrew_NZ wrote:
CarlixTomix wrote:
I like Broadsides dropped from Orcas, but I would love it if I had the chance to overload my Broadside squads, is there a chance they can get the broadside upgrade? 9 Broadsides from an Orca sounds like a lot of fire power.
Just buy two formations and put them both in the same Orca. Pretty courageous committing that many points to an armour 4+ transport (no RA, no Deflector Shield), but I have done it and it does work sort of.
An idea I hadn't considered. Can't see much problem with is as upgrades aren't that good with how they limit ones activation count.
Andrew_NZ wrote:
CarlixTomix wrote:
Supremacy suits having three weapon choices feels fun and gives room for choice, but I think 275 points is a bit expensive for them.
Realise that the 3BP version has history, and hence the higher cost. I like the lower cost less powerful options in the Epic UK list.
Perhaps a bit expensive. Will see how it does in testing. For now I'd like to keep it at 275 since it can hit quite hard at long range.
Andrew_NZ wrote:
CarlixTomix wrote:
Stormsurges are fun and strong in Minigeddon games for coordinated fire across the board, I think they are good enough as they are, no clue why do I never see them in battle reports.
There are no markerlights on the Stormsurges? Keeping track of 4 single shot Guided Missiles on each unit seems like a distinct logistical overhead. Although possibly more attractive and less risky for my hard working markerlight teams.
The change was from a whish to be true to the fluff, but I see your point. I didn't think that one thru. I hate unnecessary book keeping and 4 shots will be a pain. Will change back to last version.