Again ... DWW4U ... NM ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Then there wouldn't have been a 40k...and no Epic: Armageddon, and thus, you wouldn't be posting your complaint at all in that alternate timeline. Ironic, that is.

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http://thorvirshobbydumpster.blogspot.com/

Tau Empire, Mymeara Eldar, Tallarn Desert Raiders

Laughing at other people is hardly the mindset of 'do what works for you'. This is a thread about a fantasy game with a dark future background to it.

<<CS edited>>

If I may interject the whole reason to have a close combat focus in games is to force a game of manouver and engagement for players as opposed to both sides moving into weapons range and then just rolling shooting dice until one side dies.

As stated by L4 when talking about the original AT moving into range and just shooting made for a very dull game so he is sort of contradicting himself here, shooting a target at range is more realistic yes but makes for a dull game hence we have close combat being a viable/necessary option just to make games well more engaging and dynamic to play.

I understand L4's desire for realism but we are playing these games and collecting these totally unrealistic models because it's fun to play and allows use to enjoy playing with colour when painting our troops. If anything the 40k era should be compared to the napoleonic period they had rifles and cannons but that didn't stop them useing very colourful uniforms on the field. 40k is a mish mash of many historical period dropped into a blender to serve up a colourful engaging and hopefully fun game in a sci fantasy dark future it's very success should speak for itself.

Most people who play these games also have an historical interest or two too myself included I have a massive GHQ micro armour collection for both WWII and modern periods but I do enjoy collecting my silly sci fi models and painting them in totally unrealistic colours.

All IMHO of course and in no way am I having a go at L4 here he is as entitled to his opinion as much as the next person.

DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU...........

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Vanguard Miniatures

Link, http://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/

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That may have been their goal in crafting a setting that enables CC, but it is a false assumption that just incorporating CC will encourage tactical maneuvering more that just ranged combat would, and that may explain why, in virtually all their games, they have failed rather spectacularly to create maneuver focused games. When it comes right down to it, CC is just another range, and in a lot of their games (though admittedly some variations of Epic are better) you commonly hear complaints about how games are just charging straight across the board and then rolling dice until one side dies.

Your right that maneuver makes or breaks a miniatures game, but just shortening the range of the most effective attack does not make a game be about maneuvering. Making a unit's position relative to other units makes a game be about maneuvering. Line of Sight, Firing Arcs, Flank/Rear attacks, alternating activations (so that the enemy is able to surprise/react to you) reactive actions, support/control units that have to stay near the unit they are buffing/nerfing despite being vulnerable in combat.

No, GW claims to be a model company not a game company, and it shows in most of their games. Once other companies started to actually innovate mechanically and not just create knock-offs of Warhammer it was pretty clear just how lacking their rules are and I, at least, haven't looked back.

But, bringing this marginally on-topic, who knows. Their new leadership seems to have actually learned quite a few lessons and is trying to correct a lot of the bad practices of the past couple decades. Maybe this is another lesson learned and the new AT will be totally awesome.

Anyway. Sorry for the off topic rant. Your post just hit on a topic I have spent a lot of time thinking about and never being able to talk about and I couldn't resist getting out the old soap box.

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Thanks,
Troy


Once Upon a Midnight Dreary....

Look up "Hyperbole" ...

And is having a different opinion spamming ?

As far as my abysmal grammar and punctuation ... I didn't know there was going to be an English quiz ? Does that have anything to do with the new AT ?

Nonsense ? So if I disagree with your opinion it is nonsense ?

Hmmm ?

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Yes, you are correct ... Has I said, I have been involved in Epic since '90. And had seem many iterations, etc.. So I think you all should go back to talking about the new AT8mm. And disregard my "bias". As JZ mentioned.

I know sometimes my "opinion" on GW, Epic, 40K, etc. is not "taken" well by some. But again, everybody is entitled to an opinion, skewed or not. So again, we have all made our thoughts known. I think again as JZ pointed out. The discussion of the new AT is no longer the topic of recent posts. And I freely admit I'm at least partly if not completely responsible for that. Mea Culpa ...

And remember in any conversation about any topic if opinions are given. They may not always agree with yours. As we clearly see here. Just like if your significant other asks if they look fat in their clothes. They might not want to hear the answer if it is not what they wanted to believe.

Now who is going to post something about the new AT ? I'm not so I'll leave that up to whoever.

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Your views have much merit i'm not sticking up for GW in anyway I sort of abandoned them many moons ago but i'm still engaged in epic and the 30/40k universe fluff in general.

We all have our views yes.

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Vanguard Miniatures

Link, http://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/

Stockist of:

Vanguard Miniatures
BattleGroup Helios
Onslaught Miniatures
Pyrkol Gaming Markers
Gregster's Lab
Microworld Games
Troublemaker Games

Can't tell if you're genuinely not able to understand and/or communicate, or just wilfully missing the point and being a troll. Either way, /ignore.

None of the above ... but you can believe as you like ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Guys. This conversation risks getting more heated than the Wales - England rugby game that I am watching whilst trying to catch up on Forum posts. So maybe both need to take a brief 5 miuntes pause, deep breath, and then resume chatting about the Epic game that we all love.

I have had many great conversations with L4 in my time here. I don't agree with him on his love for hard sci-fi, but that's ok as we can all have different opinions. I got into this hobby with Rogue Trader and Adeptus Titanicus / Space Marine 1st editions. So I have always liked the Sci-Fantasy element of W40k. So it's not surprising that any new AT hame would be along similar lines. So I don't think L4 should be bashing the forthcoming game for not being hard sci-fi.

But neither do I think should get personal in criticising him for that opinion.

For my Titans in Epic Armageddon I have tended towards taking ranged weapons. If I was taking 3 Battle Titans in an AMTL list I have tended to take 2 Titans with exclusively ranged weaponry and 1 Titan with 1 or 2 close combat. But that's just me.

Cheers

James

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My TOEG- Blood Angels and Deathbolts
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Hi!

Ah....

This thread reminds me of the days of the old flame wars over epic40k and SM2.

I think it best to just acknowledge that some will think this new offering is the "bomb" and some will think its worse than Satan.

At this point the the epic player base has too many divergent opinions to be unified under one game system (at least as GW would make it).

So just pick one, be it this new offering or an older one and enjoy.

It's not like anyone will change their opinion if yours is different. Its the internet, read it and move on.

Outside the people you enjoy the game with little else matters.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

I am looking forward to the release. Thanks for the link from Col.Hertford , a couple of pages earlier, and he has actually got to trial the new game. The command panel has real potential. My great hope is that we will see a new psi titan.
I like close combat titan weapons which in my humble view includes the corvus assault pod and the corvus head. I use one of the pods as a head for an emperor titan. Got it cheap and the emperor cost $5 oz in the GW sell out sale.There is a Picture on one of my old threads. Works well. Think of the possibilities of boarding another titan. Surely if you can board a space ship you can board a titan regardless of its personality. LOL- when you get old your mind works in funny ways.

I find that severely lacklustre. Why not both??

https://www.google.se/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/russia-nuclear-missiles-sarmat-satan-nuclear-war-cold-war-putin-us-a7378876.html%3famp

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Nitpicks Knapsack (Scratchbuilding and 3D designing and printing and painting)

I have 3 Assault Titans, I think of them as heavily armed and armored Landing Craft.
I have an original A/Titan ... With 2 Corvus Pod Arms
Corvus Head
Carapace Landing Pad( for Jump Pack SMs)
Plus Carapace mounted Def Laser & Heavy Plasma Cannon (using the original AT/SM1 weapons designations, not SM2, etc.). To provide suppressive/cover fire.
May not be used against other Titans( But that is an option). But the best way to clear a structure, and is a US military standard. Is from the top-down. So the A/Titan can land it's troops on top of a structure (like a chopper would). And then clear out the structure from the top floor down. And if the enemy runs out of the structure they get hit by other ground units covering the lower floors.

So I really don't see the Corvus pods/head and Landing Pad as close combat weapons. But more like a troop transport with heavy armor & weapons to support the assault landing(s).

I use these AMT AT-ATs as my other two Assault Titans. Stat'd the same as the GW version. But the "carapace" weapons mounts are Left & Right Grade 3 Auto-Cannons.

And the "Corvus Pods" are mounted internally and deployed/doors opened when next to assault target/Objective.

And the Corvus Head, a ramp would be deployed when next to target.

And of course the flat area on the top of the hull/"carapace" is the Landing Pad.

[And the crashed AT-AT is just used as terrain ... obviously ...]

Somethings to think about no matter what version of AT/Epic one plays ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."