jimmyzimms wrote:
Just a reminder that the cyclops features rather heavily in the Elysian drop trooper list already.
We should probably use those stats, whatever they happen to be.
Review of Previous DiscussionSo I had a look through the Elysian thread here on Taccoms, a couple of places elsewhere and some inter-web pages.
Initially on the Elysium Drop List the Cyclops was:
Light Vehicle, Armour 6+, Speed 20 cm, FF nil, CC 2+
Demolition Charge, Assault Weapon, MW
Teleport. Immediately removed from play if it attacks an enemy in close combat, and does not count as killed for combat resolution, or generate a blast maker after the engagement is concluded.
Formation Upgrade, 3 Cyclops units for 75 points.
There was lots of discussion about it having Light Vehicle vulnerability in an infantry formation, . . .
Some discussion about how far it could get from its controller, and how that translates to coherency in Epic.
Including the scout ZoC tricks that would come with that characteristic.
Back and forth about being a separate unit or a character upgrade or something else.
It gained and lost Expendable but mostly has it still and was eventually given Infiltrator.
Discussion about its damage capability centred around memory or earlier 40K rules.
It was originally in "IA1" as an S8 AP2 charge, whatever that means.
Then later in IA8 it says Armour Piercing 3.
Sadly that seems to mean it was switched down from a CC MW weapon.
Notes from a more recent (?) inter-web page gives
http://cadiascreed40k.blogspot.co.nz/2014/11/astra-militarum-tactics-cyclops-demo.html wrote:
Its weapon profile is essentially an earthshaker cannon with S9 AP3 Ordnance, large blast.
Perhaps the large blast radius means it might have an EA (+1) for CC, if the S9 does not merit MW.
It seems definitely odd that something "the size of a landrover" packed with explosives - a demolition charge - does not have more potency, . . . . but then it is Warhammer 40K !?
The drop away from MW left it underpowered or over-costed and there was a price drop.
It wound up, five or six years ago - not much "development" since - as a formation upgrade, 3 units for 50 points.
Elysian_Drop_Troop_Army_List_v3.1.5a.pdf wrote:
Light Vehicle, 20 cm move, Armour 6+, CC 3+, FF nil,
Demolition Charge, range 15 cm, AP4+/AT4+, One Shot,
Infiltrator, Teleport. The Cyclops is removed from play (causing no Blastmarkers) if it is used in an attack.
"The Demolition Charge as ranged weapon represents the Cyclops racing forward at top speed more or less blind into an enemy formation and exploding.
While it's CC-attack represents a more cautious approach through the controller who would be able to move the Cyclops to a juicy target to cause maximum damage."
Conclusions - ObservationsNobody seems to have discussed transporting this vehicle (the Cyclops) since in the Elysian list it teleports in with an infantry formation.
Losing Teleport, as it effectively would if added to a Mechanised Infantry formation would make it, again, underpowered or over-costed? Getting blast markers for "teleporting" a robot vehicle seemed odd to some.
The fluff I read (as opposed to 40K rules which I don't know) suggested it was a bunker buster.
Without MW that is not well reflected. I quite like my idea of an Extra Attack option reflecting the large blast radius.
As a Light Vehicle it cannot enter buildings - OK given its size - but I'd have though it could just drive up to one,
detonate and bring the whole thing down. Vehicle size bomb and all.
Perhaps the Elysian Drop version of the Cyclops has less explosive (so it can be air-lifted) than a Heavy Mech version,
riding to war in a DC 2 war-engine heavy transport.
Coming out of a vehicle into an engagement means that the Cyclops would also effectively lose much of its Infiltate ability.
I understand that the infiltrate double move distance only applies to a regular move, not the 5 cm dismount.
Still keen on seeing the vehicle included in a fluffy way. Especially since I have just mounted up four bases of "count as"
Demolitions wados from the Solar Empire Marines Engineering Packs by C-in-C Miniatures.
Weirdly I might just use the stands for count as Ogryns. Having a couple of models on the stand lets me imagine
they are being used once per turn and perhaps the Crassus is carrying extras in the "not-Ogryn" interior space.
CC4+, EA(+1) MW sounds much more like a solid demolition charge to me. The support group can provide the FF value
or the lower FF value just means a hasty fairly blind dash forward into the general position of an enemy formation.
Looking forward to hearing what you think. Sorry for the long discourse, . . . .