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Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic

 Post subject: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:31 pm 
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Wondered whether this seems reasonable for the Imperial Guard
Macharius for Net Epic
Troop Type /Move /Save /CAF /Weapons /Range/Attack Dice/To-Hit Roll/TSM/Notes
Macharius/15cm/2+/+4/Battlecannon/75cm/2/4+/-2/Turret, PD(2), Super Heavy
Macharius”Vanquisher”/15cm/2+/+4/Vanquisher Cannon/75cm/2/4+/-2/Turret, Penetrating (+1) PD(2) , Super Heavy
Macharius ”Vulcan” /15cm/2+/+4/Vulcan Mega Bolter /25cm/8/4+/0/Turret, PD(2) , Super Heavy
Formations
Support Cards Break Point/Morale/Victory Points/Cost
Macharius Squadron/3 Macharius Tanks/2/4/3/300
Macharius “Vanquisher” Squadron/3 Macharius “ Vanquisher” Tanks/2/4/3/325
Macharius “Vulcan” Squadron/3 Macharius “ Vulcan” Tanks/2/4/3/400
Company Cards Break Point/Morale/Victory Points/Cost
Macharius Company/2/4/5/950
Macharius CHQ
3 Macharius Squadron
Net Epic Gold Formula Costs
Macharius Squadron 96/288/300
Macharius “Vanquisher” Squadron 98/294/300
Maharius “Vulcan” Squadron 86/258/250
96/960/950

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:33 pm 
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Llamahead wrote:
Wondered whether this seems reasonable for the Imperial Guard
Macharius for Net Epic
Troop Type /Move /Save /CAF /Weapons /Range/Attack Dice/To-Hit Roll/TSM/Notes
Macharius/15cm/2+/+4/Battlecannon/75cm/2/4+/-2/Turret, PD(2), Super Heavy
Macharius”Vanquisher”/15cm/2+/+4/Vanquisher Cannon/75cm/2/4+/-2/Turret, Penetrating (+1) PD(2) , Super Heavy
Macharius ”Vulcan” /15cm/2+/+4/Vulcan Mega Bolter /25cm/8/4+/0/Turret, PD(2) , Super Heavy
Formations
Support Cards Break Point/Morale/Victory Points/Cost
Macharius Squadron/3 Macharius Tanks/2/4/3/300
Macharius “Vanquisher” Squadron/3 Macharius “ Vanquisher” Tanks/2/4/3/325
Macharius “Vulcan” Squadron/3 Macharius “ Vulcan” Tanks/2/4/3/400
Company Cards Break Point/Morale/Victory Points/Cost
Macharius Company/2/4/5/950
Macharius CHQ
3 Macharius Squadron
Net Epic Gold Formula Costs
Macharius Squadron 96/288/300
Macharius “Vanquisher” Squadron 98/294/300
Maharius “Vulcan” Squadron 86/258/250
96/960/950


Hi!

Looks good!

I wonder if we should open up getting everything new stated up for Platinum. There are many things on those lists.

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:29 am 
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Nice,

Some comments though:

The battlecanon on the Macharius is the same as on the Leman Russ and should be 5+

Are they really superheavy or only heavy tanks?

Where the he k can one get a hold on those cool minis? (I presume that they are forumware?)
Or
What would be a suitable proxy? (I can't find any I like, and believe me, I've looked!)


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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:16 pm 
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It's got two structure points in 40k, so probably. Where's the cutoff at for that, Primarch?

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:31 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
It's got two structure points in 40k, so probably. Where's the cutoff at for that, Primarch?


Hi!

Oh don't ask me abut 40k stuff. I am totally clueless about that game. Haven't touched it since Rogue trader. :P

I would not categorize it as a super heavy though. Maybe a real tough standard vehicle like the gorgon.

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:46 pm 
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One problem with that example, Primarch. In NetEpic Gold, the Gorgon is a Super Heavy.

The Lexicanum describes the Macarius as a "Second generation Baneblade design with a variety of turret options", so it should be a Super Heavy. (I had to look it up as I'd never heard of it before this thread.) Also, Lexicanum describes it as Super Heavy.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Machari ... vy_Tank%29

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:57 pm 
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@Ringo it's twin linked so I based it on the better Baneblade version I could understand however if you want to base it on half a Stormhammer instead. http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/6mmSF/Neo-Soviet/SF300-1202.html is what I've picked up their tanks make excellent Guard proxies and at £11 for 9 far cheaper than most forumware. I made it a Super Heavy for the simple reason it had Structure Points but that doesn't bother me either way.

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:27 pm 
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They are classed as Super Heavies, they are meant to be alternatives to the standard Super Heavies like the Baneblade and are made by Forgeworlds who don't have access to the STCs. They have similar levels of armour.

Changes I would make to the proposed stats would be, drop the speeds down to 10cm (they are very slow), PD down to 1, and add an extra attack to represent the 4 Heavy Bolters/Heavy Stubbers, maybe Heavy Bolters/50cm/2AD/5+/0.

One thing I think we need to implement is that a lot of the big guns in 40k are template weapons these days. The Macharius Cannon fires with a 7" ordnance template. So we might have to look into using templates with some direct fire weapons, no BPs, no scatter, just roll to hit models under the template.

Another, which sort of follows on from Jimmy's point, do we need different levels of Super Heavies, or in other words, Damage Capacity like in Armageddon?


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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:53 pm 
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It's good to point out that Praetorians all the way back in version 1 had the equivalent of DCs (call it what you may) so hardly a new thing. It does add to book keeping so something to consider either way.

As Matt alludes to, putting things in perspective, a Baneblade has 3 structure points to the Gorgon and Mach's 2. The latter are incidentally sharing technology so whatever the Gorgon is, the Mach should be as well in size and speed (they're within 1KPH of each other-close enough to be of no consequence in Epic of any version I'd expect)

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:14 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
One problem with that example, Primarch. In NetEpic Gold, the Gorgon is a Super Heavy.

The Lexicanum describes the Macarius as a "Second generation Baneblade design with a variety of turret options", so it should be a Super Heavy. (I had to look it up as I'd never heard of it before this thread.) Also, Lexicanum describes it as Super Heavy.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Machari ... vy_Tank%29


Hi!

Oh, well shows what I know. :P

Carry on. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:21 pm 
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Hit points can also be used on knights to add variety.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:25 pm 
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Mattman wrote:
Hit points can also be used on knights to add variety.


Hi!

This would not be unprecedented since Tyranids use wounds. The thing to be careful about is that the end result (units with wounds), don't turn out better than units with hit location templates. Of course if those aren't used then things get interesting. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:50 pm 
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I don't want to see many units gaining wounds/damage points. The system works well as is. If we were to roll out damage points across the system then I think it would slow the game to disasterously. I don't think that is what is being suggested though. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:02 pm 
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Super Heavies in NetEpic already kinda have a simulated DP system with their "do I actually die or not, having just failed my armor save" roll. If Super Heavy (& possibly Knights) were to be given Wounds, the Wounds should replace that roll. The roll works well enough for Gold, but replacing that with Wounds for Platinum could be interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:34 pm 
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Indeed. If we decide to go down a damage point route then I wouldn't expect the Super Heavy Damage Table to stay. And it isn't as if we don't have book keeping already by recording the 2-3 result on the table, void shields and hit points for nids.
Normal tanks and walkers in 40k now have 3 hit points (Leman Russ, Rhino, Land Raiders, Dreadnought ect). With normal things dieing like they do in Epic, it is fair to assume that the strength of the attack/volley is enough to knock out 3 hit points, so dividing their listed HPs by 3 and rounding would be a fair starting point. From the info I have that would give us the following (the numbers are the HPs they have divided by 3):

Leman Russ 1 (3 Hit Points)
Land Raider 1 (4 Hit Points)
Baneblade 3
Banehammer 3
Banesword 3
Doomhammer 3
Hellhammer 3
Shadowsword 3
Stormlord 3
Stormsword 3
Thunderhawk Gunship 3
Lord of Skulls 3
Gargantuan Squiggoth 3 (actually is treated as a non vehicle with 8 wounds)
Stompa 4
Revenant 3
Hierodule 2 (has 6 wounds)
Harridan 3 (has 8 wounds)
Hierophant 3 (has 10 wounds)
Obelisk 2
Tesseract Vault 3
Warhound 3
Skullhamma Battle Fortress 3
Fellblade 4
Typhon 2
Cerberus 2
Spartan 2
Riptide 2 (has 5 wounds)
Knight Paladin 2
Knight Errant 2

These numbers are also very close to what they had in structure points in previous versions of 40k (Stormlord has 3 Structure Points for example). And amusingly the Marauder Bomber is a Super Heavy with 3 structure points which no one has spotted yet ;)

An interesting point I found while reading through Apocalypse is that the Phantom Titan is listed with with 24HPs and the Reaver has 18 that gives you an idea of how much more resilient they are compared to a vehicle.

Matt


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