Steve54 wrote:
Dobbsy wrote:
Has anyone ever just considered/tried making them simple transports?
That would basically require a complete restart of the list, and would ignore completely the monolith and necron fluff
Indeed it would. Tansport would probably be easier to balance. I'd rather try to get a portal based army to work though.
mordoten wrote:
how about just letting them teleport once like all other teleport units in the game?
That's already a part of Sautekh since phase out is not a part of the list.
Kyrt wrote:
I think we are at the point where a rethink is needed though, a clean break from raiders.
Brumbaers post is basically what I thought, it's as if the list is designed not to have counters. When I read the list, I thought it looked like it was written by an 8 year old boy.
I know you want to address it but it seems like it's a matter of taking with one hand and giving with the other. Night scythes adds yet another option for the beardy portals that you don't have to leave exposed at the start of the turn, for example.
I don't expect you to do it, but I'll say it anyway. If it were me, I'd totally rethink the role all the special rules play. I'd severely limit the impact of all of them.
For example make portals behave the same way all the other ways of entering the board do, i.e. with downsides. This could be done by making them identical to Eldar portals (i.e. one way). You could keep phase out then, as the only way to leave the board and make it feel different to eldar. Or prevent a formation using more than 1 portal per turn, or limit portals to 1 per formation. Remove living metal and replace with a void shield style regeneration for WE, or make it like void shields entirely (even for the AVs), or dark eldar shadow fields. Remove TK from the pylon. Remove the portals from night scythes. Do something about fearless, or maybe just remove all the leaders.
With all of that they would be far closer to being a regular army and have the same downsides and counters.
I agree a rethinking of the list is what we need to do. And that's what we've tried to achieve with Sautekh.
Phase out is gone and will not be back. I don't want it back as it often works to the benefit of the necron player rather than their disadvantage.
Some of these things are already in place. A formation using an eternity gate is only usable ones per turn.
A holofield save kind of rule would give the same kind of save against MW and TK. I don't like that. I will test night scythes as only transports in my next game and no LM.
Ginger wrote:
Just Spitballing here.
It sounds as though the main complaint is that the interaction between all the special rules, which effectively removes all weaknesses. This results in the binary result people have alluded to; kill the portals and you win, don't kill them and you lose. Living metal merely increases or decreases the likelihood of killing a portal consequently swinging the likely outcome from one side to the other.
So, perhaps the key is to disrupt the various rule interactions, one of the key ones being the ability to assault out of one portal and consolidate back through another in the same formation.
What would happen if each formation were only allowed to use portals once per turn?
My 2 cents as they say.
In sautekh the portal-engage-portal-out is much litmited already, it is still possible though
Basically a formation can only use one eternity gate portal per turn and can't leave the table through them. But I did leave some regular portals in the list as well. If I were to remove portals from the ariplanes (in favor of transport), then there would only be regular portals left in the warengines. I think that's a fair start.
Perhaps the easiest thing is to just make all portals in Sautekh eternity gates though. It would certainly be neater with only one kind of portals. That would mean each formation could only use one portal per turn. The portal out would be totaly gone.