Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

Defending against Air-assault

 Post subject: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:56 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:23 am
Posts: 706
A friend of mine has been using an interesting defence against air assault where rather than ensuring nothing is intermingled and can be drawn in together, his most vulnerable units are actually surrounded (in base contact) with larger units.
The idea is to ensure that the opponent doesn't have the option of deciding whether to call an intermingled combat or not, but is simply in both unit's control zones and has to fight both after disembarking.

The risk is of course that if it goes wrong, it can go spectacularly wrong - as it did in his last game where he lost his defending unit and BTS to the first air assault :D

He was using a chaos army, but the same would hold true for any army with small expensive units and large formations, for example Guard Regimental Command completely enveloping Manticores to protect them vs Thunderhawks (with the added advantage of potentially having multiple commissars).

What are people's experiences with this approach, what other forms of anti air assault do you find most successful, and what types of anti-air deployment do you favour?
I'm taking a Guard army to a tournament featuring 6 Thunderhawks and 5 Landas this weekend so have a great opportunity to experiment with all sorts of approaches. O0


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:31 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 6:12 am
Posts: 1331
Location: Australia
I had one player attempt a less severe version of this tactic against my necrons a few years back.
It came unstuck by the simple fact that I chose to engage the formation behind the screen from my maximum firefight range (thus ignoring the screening units ZoC, and remembering you can shoot through anything that isnt a war engine) and IIRC wiped them out before supporting fire from the scarier formation came into play.

Also, being blocked in by your own protecting formation limits the ability to countercharge, which makes clipping assaults easier and more effective.

so against a CC heavy Air Assault (orks in landas, assault marines, terminators) it's a reasonable gamble, but against any FF heavy Air Assault, its a pretty bad risk

_________________
~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:14 pm
Posts: 568
Location: Galicia, Spain
Since I only have a few scouts in my armies, I usually rely on AA Units+Overwatch to stop those assaults or at least cripple the assaulting formation for a later counter attack.

_________________
Epic Armageddon in Spanish (from Spain): http://www.box.net/shared/3u5vr8a370

Konig Armoured Regiment FanList: https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 41#p581941


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:39 pm
Posts: 292
Location: Mooskirchen, Austria
As lord-bruno says. In my Minervan list I always field 6 Hydras and 4 Thunderbolts. Reason for this: Our meta is air-heavy. Our Ork players often field 9 FBs and 2 Landas, Marines with T-Hawks, Eldar with Raiders and so on. In my AMTL CML is always a priority.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:47 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Scotland, UK
On the subject of air assualt (kind of) am I doing this right.

Start of turn - Thawk lands and a devastator squad disembarks. Squad plus thawk shoot. End of turn.

Next turn - squad gets back in thawk and moves to different position on the battle field. Then disembarks and all shoot again?
We were doing this in a game the other night and it seemed mental

_________________
Walk softly. And carry a big gun.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:34 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 6:12 am
Posts: 1331
Location: Australia
Nope.

three immediate reasons:
1, when you hop into a war engine, the war engine can no longer activate that turn
2, you cannot take off and land in the same activation
3, taking off takes place in the disengage moves

_________________
~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:13 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Scotland, UK
Ah apologise, I should have clarified

1) unit was already in the thawk
2) we did land, but did not take off in the same turn

_________________
Walk softly. And carry a big gun.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:04 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 6:12 am
Posts: 1331
Location: Australia
Again, no.
you cannot "take off" with a thunderhawk unless you are performing a disengagement move. This takes place in the end phase, and has no way to then "land" elsewhere on the battlefield. Landing only takes place during a ground attack action.

You can do the following
turn 1, thunderhawk flies in, devastators disembark, shoot some dudes, at the end of the turn the thunderhawk flies off and leaves devastators there
turn 2, devastators move, shoot, whatever. Thunderhawk flies in, picks up devastators, at end of turn, thunderhawk flies off with devastators inside.
turn 3, repeat turn 1

if you do the following:
"Thunderhawk lands, troops assault, troops consolidate back into thunderhawk" then the thunderhawk cannot disengage afterwards

you can also do the following if you have a spare thunderhawk, due to a (frankly quite stupid) rules loophole.
Turn 1, thunderhawk 1 moves in with devastators, who disembark, shoot some stuff. thunderhawk 2 flies in, picks up devastators. end of turn, thunderhawk 1 and 2 both disengage, thunderhawk 2 now has devastators onboard.
Turn 2. same as turn 1, except thunderhawk2 starts off.

(though, strictly speaking, the rules for the war engine transports provide no provision for thunderhawks to "pick up" infantry in the traditional manner, war engines only have rules to allow the infantry formation to board the thunderhawk as part of the infantry formations movement, but that is apparently ignored by every person ever. It would solve the loophole where sometimes units can get out of an aircraft, shoot some stuff, get back into an aircraft, and fly off, all in one turn, and other instances they cannot, because all "get onto an aircraft" actions would immediately negate the ability of the aircraft to fly off that turn, but that will never happen, because thunderhawks are sacrosanct)

_________________
~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:25 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: UK
JTG the rules for aircraft picking up units as part of their own activation are in the aircraft section, not the war engine section:

"Alternatively, the aircraft may pick up any friendly units within 5cms, assuming they will fit on board of course. After embarking or disembarking any units, the aircraft may carry out its ground attack."

So no ignoring of rules needed :)

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:27 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Western Australia
Or, to give a simpler answer to Berkut666's post without all the extra opinion:
Quote:
Q:If you have a landed Thunderhawk (or indeed any transport aircraft) that didn’t leave the table can it conduct any normal action on the turn after (ie, take off, fly along a bit then ground attack something?) or are they only allowed to make a disengagement move.
A:The crucial part of the rules in my mind is 4.2.5 (Landing subheading – 2nd paragraph):
“Once landed, the aircraft is treated in all ways as a ground unit with a speed of 0…”
This means that the aircraft can, assuming it started the turn on the board (or enters by planetfall), perform any action that a ground unit can (i.e. Advance, Engage, Double, March, Marshal, Overwatch, Sustained Fire and Hold). Obviously with a move of 0, some of these are pointless. It may NOT make an aircraft action, it doesn’t count as an aircraft until the end
From the FAQ.

*edit Thanks for pointing out the rules Kyrt!

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Defending against Air-assault
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:47 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Scotland, UK
Perfect thanks guys. I have 2 THawks that can act on tandem anyway

_________________
Walk softly. And carry a big gun.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net