Not in any order of importance:
ortron wrote:
A final one for the air side if I may, the Storm Talon looks a bit underdone for a 100pt flyer. I think maybe this could be addressed through looking at the weapon load initially. I think you could consider the current gattling cannons getting an upgrade to 15cm AP5+/AT5+/AA5+ or given they're TL assault cannons, maybe a single 15cm AP4+/AT4+/AA4+. The rocket pod can probably stay as is for now but may need a boost as well.
Yeah 4+ is an idea. You should read this thread (yes I mean ALL 19 pages, for reals) before you see just how contentious that one was
http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... hp?t=23196I actually agree this guy needs work but am hoping we can back this up needs up with real stats and batreps and then re-open the debate from a stand point of actual data vs. "ohhh skurrry" and "I disagree because [insert opinion]" which pretty much exemplified that thread at the end
I should note the stats I have in there are old and incorrect (more a case of entertaining 2 year old while list building - a not recommended practice
). It is supposed to be a 2x attack AC
I'll add it to the corrections list and get that republished ASAP (like tonight)
ortron wrote:
Hmm... ok I think we both want the same thing but the way i read it was that the clan could take 1-2 LR from the LR upgrade + 1 for the Vet officers.
Given vets are = terminators I assumed it was a 1-1 ration lift, therefore needing 4 LR to put the entire formation in LR.
My two options to make your intent clearer. Change the option to read "may take 1 Land Raider transport each for +75 points" (thus allowing each vet officer his own ride)
OR
Change the LR upgrade to read "add up to 3 Land Raiders" (thus allowing any clan makeup the option of riding in Land Raiders, whilst the bonus one from the vet officers allows the 4x Tac, 2x Vet& 4x LR option. (This would be my preferred option)
As above, I think we both want the same thing, just the wording needs clarification.
We're thinking the same thing in the end. The intention is simply not clear here in the way I put it togetehr.
I will propose these changes->
Rework the entire upgrades section to be "Up to two upgrades may be taken Iron Hands detachment or once per Clan. No upgrade may be taken more than once". The Land Raiders will be "Add any number of Land Raiders, up to the number required to transport the formation" similar to the wording in Hunters. The goal of LR was to be for a heavy Mech Infantry formation vs Armoured Cav scenario so the limitation was not intended to be on the number vs the way they are taken. Thoughts?
ortron wrote:
Perhaps Invulnerable Save to account for the heavy bionic augmentation - might be a bit much though?
I've thought about how we can work bionics into the list, even in a wider more generic option. Nothing has really worked out right so far. In addition, the Council Retinue already has Inv Sav so I'd love to come up with another option that allows them to trade Teleport for this
other ability, whatever it may be.
ortron wrote:
I like the idea of scouts under the guidance of full battle brothers. Read the bat rep but wasn't sure how you garrisoned the unit. Wouldn't half the unit need "scout" ability or are you dropping the transports? Current base make up is 4 units with and 5 without scout (2x tac & 3x rhino) and the options don't obviously help in getting more scouts. I guess you could make it like the chaos marine scout formation where every unit in the formation gets "scout" and then cost accordingly. Given the IH being fairly mechanised, I would like to see their recon screen able to act with transports.
Good feedback. I'll add some thought cycles to this. We'll probably find we need to bump the price up but if it makes sense let's do it! I'll check out the chaos scout marine formation for inspiration and/or theft
(which list BTW?)
In addition I am contemplating the following:
- Drop Stormeagle. They are an alternate air assault vehicle and I feel I was trying to shoehorn them into this list as some sorta bomber replacement.
- Add Thunderhawk Bomber straight from the BT list. They seem to work well and balanced there and should be a better fit as an All Astartes bomber unit.
- Add LR Crusader as limited LR upgrade for pest control strategy. While I wanted to keep as close to vanilla equipment I'll point out the ONLY GW artwork for IH I've seen for a Land Raider was a Crusader (and no it wasn't a BT one, I double checked). Might be the one place to go off the reservation, so to speak.
- IH Devestators are a little too specialized with AT only shots.
Perhaps a variation of the guard autocannon shots where we have something like: "count up units and divide by two (rounding up). 1/2 shots are HB and the other half are LC". Sounds kinda hooky though. Perhaps I should go 1 HB and 1LC for each IH stand? Regress to classic ML and be done? Another option is to go the DA route and give another devastator option for Pure LC vs Pure HB stands? This could allow some list tailoring that might make pest control not be an issue (looking at you Orks and 'Nids)
- Flesh is weak doesn't really do what I want it to do. It's intended to represent the whole grim IH attitude to push on through any amount of pain and firepower coming at them to get to grips with the enemy and not about after you've lost the fight.
In Epic this scope will be best represented as anything in an Engage action and about getting into the fight and shrugging off the wounds. Perhaps instead FiW should be a reroll on infantry stands in an engage that fail their save can reroll and save on +6. This makes it less powerful than Inv Save and Reinforce Armour but still useful. I am afraid that a simple - reroll might be OTT, even without the MW guard that RA has. Input?