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how many games to date?

 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Noted. Are you getting an extra attack out of him or is the Leader/Inspiring enough?


The extra attack is marginal. Leader is the most valuable in my opinion. You really want your Stealers with 0 BMs

Dave wrote:
I've got other posters saying Zoanthropes are finally worth taking now. What are the multiple uses you're inferring to for them? AA and FF beast? I haven't tried more than four in any of my games yet, and those four have been spread out across two formations usually.


AA and FF. I have played mostly with the Dominatrix, and a swarm with four of them can be used effectively to screen off potential assaults against the Dom. You do not want the Dominatrix to include too many gaunts, since it might break them, so a nearby swarm can do the trick instead.

Since I use them for FF protection already, the AA protection makes it a no-brainer (if I field the Dominatrix).

Dave wrote:
Dominatrix AA: I think it is relatively fair, but the Dominatrix could use an increase in points.

25 points bump? More?


I would start at 25. Since most swarms become effective at 350 anyway, the SC and MW barrage make it a bargain in my opinion.

Dave wrote:
Harridan spam is still on my chopping block, whether lots of small formations or bigger ones. How have you found Lictors, Genestealers and Trygons? Also, how do Carnifex compare to Malfactors/Horospex for you?


Genestealers are very good doing their thing, but I see little point in fielding more than two formations, and I do not consider two formations a must. I struggle with Lictors, but I intend to try two formations coupled with some shooting for setting up crossfires. Exocrines, I am looking at you. I have not tried Trygons yet, but I soon will.

I find Carnifex/Malefactor/Haruspex to be of equal value and see no need for any changes. I always take at least one swarm with three of them for a very good assault formation that can traverse open terrain to get to objectives my infantry swarms have trouble reaching.

On a side note, I think the Rally bonus in combination with the Expendable rule is a little over the top at the moment. I would seriously consider changing it to +1 or maybe play some games without it.

/Fredmans


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 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Dave,
As we discussed offline, it's been awhile since we've play tested the list, and nothing really jumps out at me from memory - which is significant I think. Nothing stands out as unreasonable. The trygon cost adjustment seemed to work out well. Zoanthrops with AA work better than the gargoyles stylistically IMO. If one wants to spend a lot of points for concentrated AA, that doesn't seem like a problem to me. With the AA6+ shot you're not going to form an impenetrable barrier, especially since the FM's will be moving a lot. They are more useful in applying BM's to aircraft FM's, which can be accomplished by spreading them out over multiple swarms. That, and the zoat is slow are balancing factors, I think.

On the gargoyles, you may recall that I posed the idea of giving them infiltrate or jump packs to reflect their mobility and give them a raison d'etre [wow that's pretentious :P ] reason for being aside from being a gaunt with wings... not sure how that'd be received though.

I think you did pretty well on the W-L front, but how did they play at NEAT, within-game?

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 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Gargoyles have Jump Packs though?

W/L is 8-4, looking at my notes. Higher than normal, but I never got a chance to play against them (that's more pretentious). At NEAT they won both games (against Rob and Ruth).

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 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:39 pm 
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fredmans wrote:
The extra attack is marginal. Leader is the most valuable in my opinion. You really want your Stealers with 0 BMs


That's what I've found as well. I've looking at whether the EA is needed with Inspiring on it.

Quote:
You do not want the Dominatrix to include too many gaunts, since it might break them


That confused me? What's your thinking there.

Quote:
I would start at 25. Since most swarms become effective at 350 anyway, the SC and MW barrage make it a bargain in my opinion.


I'll bump it.

Quote:
Genestealers are very good doing their thing, but I see little point in fielding more than two formations, and I do not consider two formations a must. I struggle with Lictors, but I intend to try two formations coupled with some shooting for setting up crossfires. Exocrines, I am looking at you. I have not tried Trygons yet, but I soon will.


On the Lictors, I try to put them within assault range of target(s) where they can't be assaulted/fired upon. pretty much deep in terrain in other words.

Quote:
On a side note, I think the Rally bonus in combination with the Expendable rule is a little over the top at the moment. I would seriously consider changing it to +1 or maybe play some games without it.


You're just giving it to Synapse Swarms, right? In my games the Synapse Swarms that end up broken are those that wound up on the wrong side of an assault. They not good for much the turn they rally other than a bit of support/assault prep or a stall.

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 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:48 pm 
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Dave wrote:
fredmans wrote:
Quote:
You do not want the Dominatrix to include too many gaunts, since it might break them


That confused me? What's your thinking there.



I'm assuming that the gaunts are easy kills, therefore the formation will rack up blast markers more easily which will end up breaking the dominatrix.....

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 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Gargoyles have Jump Packs though?

Umm, yeah I knew that. I was just testing you. I meant putting jump packs on their jump packs, heh.
...nevermind :whistle

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 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:04 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
I'm assuming that the gaunts are easy kills, therefore the formation will rack up blast markers more easily which will end up breaking the dominatrix.....


They're expendable while the dom is alive though, no BMs.

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 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Dave wrote:
kyussinchains wrote:
I'm assuming that the gaunts are easy kills, therefore the formation will rack up blast markers more easily which will end up breaking the dominatrix.....


They're expendable while the dom is alive though, no BMs.


Expendables still count for assault resolution. With Tyranids at SR1, SR 4 or 5 armies can do all kinds of nasty assaults without you standing much of a chance of preventing it. If they break you with their first activations, the Dom is out for the round, and so is the re-roll and MW barrage. With a low number of expendables, you can counter-charge your Dominatrix in your favour to minimize losses. With a smaller foot-print, it is also easier to move nearby formations into good supporting positions without intermingling your formations.

I generally start with Dominatrix + Termagant and Hormagaunt, taking me to 390 pts. The augment ability is too good to pass on, but I would never start with more than that.

On rallying Synapse formations:

Breaking a synapse formation by shooting is very rare. Swarming brings back most of the losses from turn 1.

Certain armies, if they devote their activations to it, can annihilate swarms in turn 2. Most armies can assault and break swarms by now. Still, with synapse creatures being fearless, you can retreat tactically and in most cases auto-rally to keep the activation count up and to contest objectives in turn 3.

If you break in turn 3, the rally bonus is not that much, but Swarming/rally bonus and Initiative 1+ all add up to keep Tyranids highly competitive into the end game (turn 3 and later). Your own battle reports are good evidence of this. It is hard to achieve victory against Nids by turn 3. Then again, reduced Swarming might be the cure.

On a final note, Tyranid (almost certain) auto-rallying removes part of the game for your opponent; the reward for breaking an enemy formation, and most opponents (even if polite about it) feel a little "cheated" when it is time for the rally phase.

On a final final note, Tyranids got much stronger with Initiative 1+. I have a much better winning record with Tyranids than I have with other armies.

As I said, I will do more playtesting late summer and autumn, and try different builds and combinations.

/Fredmans


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 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Ginger wrote:
They are certainly in use in E-UK lists.

It was used once since the Tyranid EUK lists were launched. As a Tyranid player, I can say the spores are a very bad choice and nearly useless.

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 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:25 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
Fluff-wise it might be interesting to drop them. The whole atmospheric attack wouldn't be much of a strategy for the Tyranids with the Homeworlds because they didn't have worlds bristling with life. It is possible the Tyranids simply didn't use them in mass for that campaign.

These are the ground-based spore mine clusters, not the drop from the sky ones.

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 Post subject: Re: how many games to date?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Ginger wrote:
but for what its worth, E-UK 'Nid lists are now being played in tourneys and seem ok generally.

They are a competitive list, I'll give you that. But they are not okay as currently there's only a build that's worth taking and that's the one spamming warriors and gants to take advantage of the gants not counting for resolution rule. Otherwise, more than half the list items are unplayable due to being either too pricey or not working well w/ the tyranid rules. So while nids can appear in tourneys and do well, the EUK nids are certainly not okay.

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