OK current stuff that has been brought up as possibly needing some minor changes.


FORMATIONS

Stealth - Don't really work in what should be their main role of teleporting, actually are ok in an air assault/shoot but that doesn't really fit them and even in that role they are left behind by some other formations types. Not sure on a solution will open a specific thread for them.

Skysweep - A little overpriced, on paper they look a bit rubbish but they actually are not bad even at 275pts as basically artillery with built in flak. proposed change - price drop to 250pts


UPGRADES - Upgrades can be difficult in many armies as it is almost always better to have more activations if possible, Tau seem to amplify this problem.

Drones - Still not a good choice, going to keep it simple for the moment and just drop the price to bargain basement levels, don't agree with disposable for background reasons and think it is too big a change. If a final price drop doesn't work will probably up their firepower and/or open them up to Devilfish transport (background or not). proposed change - upgrade goes to two drones for 25pts

Bonded Team - Don't find this a problem other than the usual points squeeze while trying to cram in more activations. It might make sense from a background perspective if this worked more like the old Eldar spirit stones and applied at a formation level as opposed to a single unit getting leader. But don't really want to add another rule to the list.

Commander - Not really worth it. proposed change - drop to 25pts

Ethereal - Not really worth it. proposed change - drop to 50pts

Fire Warriors - Not a bad upgrade but it again makes more sense to add additional activations. proposed change - 25pts price drop to the upgrade choices (75/125pts).

Kroot Hounds - No real opinion on these, having said that don't mind a speed increase if no one has any objections.

Pathfinders - Not really worth it. proposed change - drop to 100pts

Piranhas - Not really worth it. proposed change - drop to 50pts


AIR CASTE

Spacecraft - Going to modify these as stated in first post.

AX-1-0 - Agree can be tricky to use and prone to being shot down, but are still very powerful. Personally I now find them hard to fit in to a 3000pts list, but an auto include when I jump to 4000pts and know the environment will be more war engine rich. These are probably not going to see any change.

So much for not having people's thoughts shot down.... hilarious. Speak my mind? Don't make me laugh. We all know people will shoot what they don't agree with even when it's supposed to be free view point

We are, however, allowed to debate.

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I would note that GW will apparently be releasing a new Tau Codex in the next few months.

Current rumours include:

- New Dropship smaller than an Orca (Transport capacity of 15 Fire Warriors)
- Sniper Battlesuit
- Large Battlesuit slightly smaller than a Dreadknight.
- Demiurg Allies (they are not Squats)

Occasional rumours about some sort of deep-striking gun turret too, though that may be related to the Dropship rumour.

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I did note the suppression use, though at 15cm range it adds incentive for the Crisis to be danger close.


That was my point.

Don't think your solution for the Skysweep formation is going to work. At the moment their main problem is that they compete with piranhas in the artillery role. But piranhas give you the same number of shots for many less points or more shots for 25 less points while being more resilient to casualties. The Skyrays ML ability is normally wasted in the formation and its AA ability is negligible as it will be skulking in the backfield and normally you will have 2 other formations with Skyrays and a squadron of Barracuda's.

If you want to make them a viable choice I think the basic formation size has to be increased to 4. This will make them very competitive for selection.

Back to Drones...

Keeping within the fluff realm of preserving tau life, why not make the drones fearless OR not generate BM when they are destroyed since they are expected to be expendable and sacrifice themselves.

That's the expendable rule that keeps being referred to; essentially the grot rule, but they contribute to combat resolution.

There is some dissention as to whether Tau predilection for keeping casualties low extend to the drones or not. Some suggest that since Tau Drones are true AIs, that Tau would try to preserve them like any of their biological sodiers - the Tau see them not as machines, but as mechanical soldiers whose 'lives' have value.

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But a Tau would see a fellow Tau's life as having more value than a drone (never once read of a Tau jumping in front of an enemy to save a drone's life but I'm sure I've read of a Drone doing that for a Tau...)
Hence the Expendable rule is quite apt for this situation.

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I agree, but there are some that don't. And until I or someone near me gets a Tau army, my opinion isn't terribly important.

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I don't like that people keep connecting BM's with casualties. It's my understanding that they represent general battle confusion resulting from explosions and such. Therefore it is perfectly understandable from a fluff point of view that drones cause BM's. It has nothing to do with them valuing one life over another, not so much "Oh my god Bob is dead" more like "Oh my god we're being shot at by BFG's". Mechanical devices exploding and dropping to the ground would add the the general battle confusion of a unit and therefore would add BM's.

Note however I said from a Fluff POV not from a Game mechanics POV. Game mechanics wise I don't see drones as a useful upgrade without some form of expendable.

Well, seems like a lot of us agree on that so let's not bother with the semantics about causes of Blast Markers and see if we can get the unit changed to make it worth taking...

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There is a difference though between Drones being willing to interpose themselves between Tau and danger and extrapolating that to think that Tau have no concern at all for Drones and consider them completely disposable in the context of a disposable or grot style rule.

Tau do not throw away resources without care and are not going to be completely unconcerned by the fact a dozen drones just disintegrated in front of them. Also blast arkers don't just represent morale effects they also represent injuries, degradation of fighting capability, comms disruption etc all sorts of things that happen on contact with an enemy who is shooting at you.

I personally just don't agree with some form of disposable/grot style rule being in the character of Tau.

But that is besides the point. I do not want to add another special rule to the list and a change of the magnitude of disposable/grot is too big a change.

As usual, we can debate semantics on Drones forever. Just because it's called "Expendable" it matters very little what the name is, all that matters is the rule. Call it "Tau before machine" for all I care. Let's just stop debating stupid little points and make them useful by giving them a non-BM rule. That's all I want for Christmas. Most agree they're not worth taking and that sucks when you already have drone miniatures. If no one takes them what is the point in having them in the list?

Drones are worth taking. They are kind of Awesome when dropped from TS's. They just aren't worth taking as an upgrade IMHO. But that has as much to do with how you get the most out of the Tau list (i.e. as many formations as possible) as it does with the drones themselves. I mean apart from Skyrays and occasionally Recon (for more missiles in an artillery formation) and Broadsides (as a buffer for FW if you want to try and engage) are any of the upgrades really worth taking in the context of the list.