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What style of Spawning would you like the nids to have?
No Spawning 39%  39%  [ 22 ]
One Spawning Pool 9%  9%  [ 5 ]
Individual Spawning Pools 21%  21%  [ 12 ]
A Spawning Queue 25%  25%  [ 14 ]
Freeform purchase 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Something else 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 57

Spawning Styles

 Post subject: Re: Spawning Styles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:02 pm 
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I wouldn't worry about vote-stuffing; it's likely to be in favour of "no spawning", which is notably behind the total of the spawning options anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Spawning Styles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:23 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
I wouldn't worry about vote-stuffing; it's likely to be in favour of "no spawning", which is notably behind the total of the spawning options anyway.

That's an interesting way to look at the results :) It looks more like 57% to 43% to me... And besides, maybe some people prefer not to have any spawning at all, if they don't get the type of spawning they want? In fact I seem to remember a couple of people actually posting to say something of this nature.

I guess the only way to know is to force people to vote with a preference list (i.e. 1 point, 2 points, 3 points). A multiple round poll where each time you remove the lowest scoring options could give a more accurate result too, but you're never going to be able to get everyone who voted in round one vote in round 2, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Spawning Styles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:15 pm 
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The intention of this poll isn't to decide exactly what spawning type to use, just to gather opinions and get a vague idea which options are more popular than others. Obviously it's not very scientific, so we're not drawing conclusions directly from it, but using it to guide the way forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Spawning Styles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:16 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Spawning Styles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:49 pm 
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I would actually like to change my vote (I know I can't) after discussion in the spawning special rule thread. That would be from queue to the "something else" option. I'd rather see
the necron resurrection/void shield rule be implemented (but with the possibility to go over starting size).

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 Post subject: Re: Spawning Styles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:59 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
The intention of this poll isn't to decide exactly what spawning type to use, just to gather opinions and get a vague idea which options are more popular than others. Obviously it's not very scientific, so we're not drawing conclusions directly from it, but using it to guide the way forward.

Fair enough, but if it is going to guide the way forward it's still best to interpret the results properly. If it's not possible to draw a cast-iron conclusion from the results then you are of course free to make an additional assumption that is not included in the results if you think it is reasonable (i.e. that those who voted for spawning A would prefer spawning B over no spawning). But others may disagree with that assumption, so I am merely pointing out that it is in fact an assumption and not something that is represented in the results themselves.

Basically when I looked at the poll the first thing I saw was "by far the most popular option is for no spawning". I think that's a valid interpretation and if you interpret it differently I have no problem with that, but I don't think it should be glossed over without fair reasoning.

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 Post subject: Re: Spawning Styles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:15 pm 
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The point is that we can draw some conclusions from the poll:

9.2.1's spawning system is very unpopular.

A smallish majority want some form of spawning.

Individual pools and the queue seem to be the more popular spawning types of those listed.

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 Post subject: Re: Spawning Styles
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:50 pm 
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I'm for No-Spawning or Formation spawning as suggested by E&C. (PS all of the below is IMHO) ;D

A number of people have brought up the concept that spawning is more Nids joining the fight and becoming organised. I am against spawning representing this and that this concept is not needed for Epic in normal games.

1. Most Epic games are about a grand assault, a major scheme by both sides, to take obj. or kill a target, or even hold the line. The Nid's and the Hive mind will be fairly organised, and in theory would not leave potential troops lying about in the middle of a battlefield just in case a larger group meet it. They would return to the hivemind/synapse as soon as they can, not linger, not without purpose. The Nid's doctrine is fundamentally one of recycling and not wasting. Leaving troops out there doing nothing is waste, especially when they could be broken down into new stronger Nids.

2. Carrying out an assualt like the Nids do in dribs and drabs is pointless, any decent defence will wipe it out. (I'm sure many of you have seen this in EPIC games and even ensure you don't go half-assed into something) Nid's wouldn't go half-assed anywhere, all out or nothing. Holding back isn't likely to happen. Hivemind says that is what is needed for the task, do it. Allowing for some contigencies but not in the same way a guard army might have multiple lines of reinforcements.

3. Even during an assault in background the Nids are not described as fast in the sense of DE or Ravenwing or Eldar or Marines. Large forces need time to prepare and get in combat states. Some specialists like a Drop insertation, or Ravenors etc will be good at this, but not the whole horde. Meaning reinforcements are unlikely to just appear, as with other points it is unlike a Nid to linger without a plan or purpose. (Genestealers and lictors exceptions due to purpose)

4. An Epic board is only still a small section of an invasion. Like 40k can be seen as part of a Epic engagement. There is always a bigger picture. The idea that what is on the board is all the resources an army can use to defend or attak this section of the campaign is there or above via ships etc. Everyone has seen Starship Troopers and background for Nids in some form, they attack together and rarely hold forces back. The force on the board is what is available at the time and that is this 'Wave' of Nid's. If you lose they send another.

Individual Formation Spawning/Repairs makes a lil more sense if people want spawning/continous assault feel. The idea that horde is much larger than the models represent/footprint represents could be tailing behind.

Although I would rather the only type of spawning come from spawning creatures, that spawn a few on a marshal action, be it like Void shield repair or just a few D3 or whatever is found to be acceptable. As these units spue out a new units from the things they harvest and recycle. So it adds a bit more horde and some sort of endless feel, but not too much, of a formation suddenly appeared, but a few more gaunts are there now.

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 Post subject: Re: Spawning Styles
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:10 am 
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that's a pretty good argument. so, a unit has special rule SPAWN(d3, type) for example. these are added to a formation after a marshall action.


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 Post subject: Re: Spawning Styles
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:55 am 
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Freeform all the way!
Let's be honest here, at the end of the day 'nids are meant to be the quintessential wave army (even more so than IG)
Limiting spawning to Horma, Terma and Gargs - yup
Allowing these to be brought in by Spawn creature at random rates of between 4 and 12 per turn? Priceless
1d3 per DC point plus the +/-d3 for unbroken and no enemy nearby would really, really give the Tyranids that feel they should have
PLUS - something not often mentioned - let's not forget once the spawning creature is gone the ability is gone, too! In the game I had today the Dom was toast on turn two, thus there goes one formation's ability. The other formation had two Hive Tyrants, a bio-titan was already toast and that left nothing able to respawn.
Crappy infantry by the bucketload, that's what 'Nids are.
Hence the 'Nid player may only have a single turn to spawn, or two, and what's spawning are really crappy slitherer units a player SHOULD deploy by the bucketful anyway. Psychologically, too, the ability to respawn only what he started with still means the mechanic is "gamey". The opponent KNOWS what's out there - if it dies it may come back, but that's about it. Spawning by definition should be the creation of new units where a formation was 11 strong one turn, 4 were killed, and the next turn it's 13. Now you've got a force the opponent has to deal with over and over, wave in wave out, and that's a fun army to play against. Nids are supposed to be hordes and hordes of aliens overwhelming lines, aren't they?
My two hundredths of a dollar, anyhoo

And did the poll specify only Tyranid players need respond or do we have 41% "No Spawning" because non-'Nid players are answering they'd sooner play AGAINST an army that doesn't spawn? Ummmm....
LOL!


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