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NetERC - Moving forwards

 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:22 pm 
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elsmore wrote:
3.) Hold a public vote to determine who takes each position.


although I can see the appeal in this, not only is the community too small for this to work efficiently, it's also not a popularity contest. In my mind it's more like applying for a job - applications should be open to anyone, but a group of people who know what they're doing select the candidates.


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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:39 pm 
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mattthemuppet wrote:
Moscovian wrote:
or taxpayers to pick out how much they'll pay each year.


don't they do that in California?

LOL I hope your joking! We are tax up His Divine Majesty Pooper!


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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:52 pm 
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While being open and receptive to new players is fine and dandy, allowing them to shape the game is like letting students pick out their own curriculum and grading standards, or taxpayers to pick out how much they'll pay each year.


Depends on what you mean by "shape the game". Make rules decisions? Yeah, that could end badly. Design lists? Set policy? Help grow the community? Decide generally how the game should work (should games take nine hours or one? Should rules design focus around the tourney scenario or move outside that?)? All those things can be done acceptably, or even well, by newer players. Indeed, taking advantage of their enthusiasm is likely to be necessary to avoid buring out people.

Allowing players to shape the game they want to play makes sense, since the purpose of a game is to provide enjoyment for those people (the purpose behind the other two systems you mention is not the happiness of the participants).

Epic is not some monolith that stands independent of its player base. Nor should it be.

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I just don't see how we can move forward without older experienced players exclusively guiding the game. This will be obvious to most and ruffle the feathers of some, but it does need to be stated.


People need to feel that their voices are heard and respected, even if they're not necessarily as weighty as others, or if they don't have the final say over everything. Otherwise they stop caring and quit. That's important for new players just as much as it is for old. Guidance is one thing. "Exclusive" guidance sounds a bit...restrictive.

Obviously there needs to be some form of governance to ensure that nothing breaks. But, personally, I think it's important to maximize the input from those outside the established structure, rather than minimize it. Not least because having a larger group of people more invested in what happens may help when the time comes to actually do the resulting work.

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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:13 pm 
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My concern would be the possibility of fraud in the voting process (though I think giving CS a veto could cover that).

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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 pm 
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the trouble with a popularity contest is that people will be voted in on the basis of how popular/ loud they are, not necessarily on the basis of how good a job they are capable of doing (much the same as politics really). I also don't think new ERC members should be chosen, so much as applications opened to all and the best selected from that bunch. That way one would hope that both that the application would be an open a process as possible AND the best person available for the job gets selected.

I'm all for harnessing the enthusiasm and energy of the whole community, but I also wouldn't want to see the game get tugged into all kinds of strange directions either - as it is it's essentially a rather stable game system. I mean, you wouldn't want an Army Champion voted in on the basis of his popularity when he has little experience with the list he's supposed to champion, would you?


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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:58 am 
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Definitely not in favour of a popularity contest.
This process needs to be guided by mature, wise, experienced hands.
Just because someone may have a high post count or make amazing models (as random examples), doesn't mean they're ready to guide the ERC (and the rest of us) forward.

We need patient, wise, communicators who can build upon and continue the good work already done.
Massive changes are not needed. Fine tuning and careful guidance are all that's required as far as I can see.

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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:51 am 
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Tell you what, let's keep discussing this for as long as neccessary to bring all members on board.

in the meantime, the show must go on! it does rely on everyone behaving like mature adults. I think we will, if only becuase the pettiness of the last few months seems to have been a contributing factor to ERC member burnout.

People moving on is inevitable though - having a baby often means a 5-10yr break in the game (although a lot of people do come back). graduating from university may crimp the free time a volunteer was pouring into the project. hell, just moving house to an area where you can't find any gamers will pretty much remove you from playtesting.


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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:45 am 
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madd0ct0r wrote:
....hell, just moving house to an area where you can't find any gamers will pretty much remove you from playtesting.

VASSAL!! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:39 am 
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Many thanks for the discussion so far. I think that we are getting to the end of useful discourse on this and I will be going through this thread another time and pulling out a couple of the more sustainable routes forward to give us a focus and get this wagon rolling.

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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:17 pm 
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elsmore wrote:
It sounds like you and Matt are suggesting we're not capable of making intelligent decisions! :D


I know that was in jest, but in all seriousness it would be hard for anyone on the board to be able get a useful insight into a person's commitment to and knowledge of the game in order to make an informed decision. Ergo, if that information is hard to obtain (unlike in a 1 to 1 interview type discourse) then it will default to a popularity contest, however popularity would be measured on here.


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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:04 am 
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maybe an apprentice system?

where someone who self declares they haven't much experience of epic but would like to help the erc project are taken under the wing of an AC?


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 Post subject: Re: NetERC - Moving forwards
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:49 am 
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CyberShadow wrote:
Many thanks for the discussion so far. I think that we are getting to the end of useful discourse on this and I will be going through this thread another time and pulling out a couple of the more sustainable routes forward to give us a focus and get this wagon rolling.


I have not forgotten about this, but things have been crazy in real life for a while. I will deal with this over the weekend. Thanks for your patience.

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