Editorial:
I'm not really sure what is creating a lot of the tension around these boards lately. It does seem like there was a lot more kumbaya around when SG at least had some influence or we were holding out the possibility that they might come back. Warmaster went through a similar cycle and eventually it just became easier to move on. Although having thought about it a number of times, I still want to believe in this community and Epic. I have on the order of 4000 - 5000 pts of 40K Elysians which I play primarily in Apocalypse. I don't need to play Epic any longer as I have the 40K armies that I want.
I choose to be here, as imperfect as I am, to try and do the best that I can...and when I've messed up (and I have) I've apologized. I'm not here to get my ego stroked. If I was, I'd pick something more commercially profitable. If others are here for that reason, I don't criticize them at all for wanting to do that. They have made the game much more accessible and fun to play with their efforts.
I'm just here because I want to have some fun. It's a part of my hobby.
In the past, it seemed like we were more focused on having fun, producing memorable reports, and sharing. We were less concerned about perfection or our perception of what perfection is.
People mattered more than toys.
It feels like we've gotten away from that.
I'm interested in working with people who'd like to return back to that time. That doesn't mean that we'll be sending each other roses on a regular basis, but it does mean that respect should be mutual, even if we don't agree with each other. Because at the end of the day, this is a hobby where people come to get some measure of enjoyment and perhaps escape the every day pressures that we're all under and if we do our "jobs" well, a bit of fun to boot.
This list started way back because I had just purchased Imperial Armor 3 - The Taros Campaign. I immediately was drawn to the Elysians because the Valkyrie was the coolest thing to come out of 40K in years. I didn't think that I would ever be able to collect a 40K army of them, so I endeavored to create an Epic version.
Before I started, I polled a lot of the players out there to get a feel for what they thought should be in an Elysian list. As it turned out, for every person out there, a different opinion existed. I saw that as troubling and potentially problematical for any list that might be generated as who was really an expert on this sort of subject. So I set as part of the design that I would create a list that emulated the 40K version as much as possible given the wide and varying opinions of what a list ought to look like.
I took that slavish* perspective for one reason. When it came time to explaining why the list consisted of the things it did, I could easily point to the source as the foundation for the list. End of argument. Now, many have not liked that decision, but they could not reasonably argue with the logic. I wanted those that were helping with the list to focus more on it's capabilities given a fixed set of parameters. That's how the real world operates.
Note: I take the word "slavish" dedication to quote Matt the Muppet, not to poke back at him, but more as a compliment. I intended to hold the line on this issue, because it is the bedrock and foundation for which the rest of the house is built upon.
Back then, the list operated in the following fashion:
1. Lot's of drop troop companies, with upgrades and the upgrades were able to take transport 2. Support sentinels in separate formations 3. Drop sentinels in separate formations 4. Storm Troopers that were tailored to fit a particular description of their operations (i.e. airmobile assault) 5. Average aircraft capabilities
The way one approached playing the Elysians back then was to emulate the historical example set in IA3. You grouped your objectives in a way that supported the dropping of an infantry force. You took as many drop troop companies as you could afford because you were going to face attrition. You supplemented them with as many air assets and storm troopers as you could because the formations were fragile. It was tough to get a win.
And that was Ok, primarily because the list was not intended for tournaments and competitive play, it was intended to support "historical" play as outlined in IA3. I took some measure of satisfaction that the list performed in many ways, similarly to it's modern counter parts in the real world and that where those forces performed well it did as well and when tasked with missions that it wasn't necessarily well suited for, it failed, sometimes miserably...also historically accurate.
And we had fun with the list, both the good and the bad.
At some point around 2007-ish or so, at least one member of the then ERC said that it was possible for the list to be considered tournament capable with some testing. We did that (locally) and a couple of other people participated as well. The list was still underpowered (still is actually), but reasonably so.
It was not an easy list to play. Much like real air mobile operations, a lot of things have to go your way. When your actions are under the influence of random decisions (i.e. dice rolls), that may not go your way. That enhances weaknesses inherent in the list.
At some point Imperial Armor 8 came out. It was clear from FWs communications that this list was intended to replace IA3 for a number of reasons. On the balance, it seemed like a good decision because the drop companies became a tad bigger, plus could get access to more organic firepower in the form of attached sentinels. There were new toys...and it seemed like the loss of support sentinels was all that the Elysians were giving up.
So I made the decision to not bridge books and build a pure IA8 list. That seemed the obvious solution to me, but was something that irritated a few. I will freely admit that I don't understand this position, but as stated in previous posts, I will reintroduce them. Mosc and I are working on a first cut at the stats and will present them in the next day or so.
Also at this time, using feedback from this thread, the list took a direction to make things more capable (not a bad idea), but also more expensive (marginally). There was some upping and downing of points here and there, but at the end of the day, the list started giving up activations which up till now had been one of it's strengths. In hindsight, I now believe that to be a mistake. The core formations are fairly solid for what they are intended to do (drop/grab/hold) when there are plenty of them around. They are much too weak to be traveling around as if they are stand alone formations.
So that is going to change.
In light of the heightened state of emotions at this time, I'm going to pause here and do some analysis on the list. If others are interested, I will attempt to find and post some of the older versions just for comparison.
One other point to note. When the Elysians first kicked off, there wasn't the proliferation of lists that we now see. There were only two SM lists (SM and WS), one very broken Eldar list, a Tau list that was alternately strong, then weak, two Ork lists, one Chaos list, one IG list (SL) and one struggling Tyranid list.
Much simpler times.
Cheers,
_________________ Remember Taros? We do.
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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