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Considering Epic...

 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:19 pm 
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Ulrik wrote:
Except you want tanks for an Eldar army (wave serpents and firestorms especially, and for the last ones you need falcons) and then the costs starts climbing.

I'll admit that it's probably because I wouldn't want to proxy eldar tanks but don't mind proxying IG or Orks (or Marines for that matter, gogo M113). GW charges roughly twice the amount per tank ($6) that EW does ($3). Hell, wave serpents are $10 each...

Oddly enough when I started my Eldar I didn't get tanks till later (Expect 1 Storm SHT). A Infantry list works fine with proper support and Webway portals. You really only need 1 formation to have decent AA plus the Titan or Planes your running. That's only $40 for a pack of Falcons and Firestroms.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:14 pm 
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Ha, horrible first start at a Marine list. Tell me what's wrong with it!

TACTICAL DETACHMENT [350]
6 Tacticals, 2 Razorback

TACTICAL DETACHMENT [300]
6 Tacticals, Rhinos

TACTICAL DETACHMENT [300]
6 Tacticals, Rhinos

WHIRLWINDS [300]
4 Whirlwinds

THUNDERHAWK [200]


THUNDERHAWK [200]


TERMINATOR DETACHMENT [690]
4 Terminators, 4 Land Raider

WARHOUND PACK [500]
2 Warhounds

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts


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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:25 am 
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Well for Starters your running Tactical Formations and putting Termies in Land Raiders! LOL! ::)

Its a wide held believe that SM Tacs suck and so do Land Raiders. I don't strictly feel this way but a lot of Tournament folk do. Most (If not all) SM lists have 1-2 Thunderbolts, 2 Single Warhounds (Pair isn't cool :o ), 1-3 Thunderhawk usually loaded with 1 Dev and 1 Assault Formation, 2ish Terminators formation and 1 Tac formation for your Supreme Commander. That's a rough list but most armies all have one of above. I also don't see any Characters in your list? There good! use them!

Are theere certain units you REALLY want in the list? Might help fine tune it. I'll take a random shot tho.

How's this?

Codex Astartes (NetEA Compendium 1.1)
==================================================

TACTICAL DETACHMENT [475]
6 Tacticals, Supreme Commander, Hunter

ASSAULT DETACHMENT [225]
4 Assault Units, Chaplain

DEVASTATOR DETACHMENT [250]
4 Devastators

THUNDERHAWK [200]

TERMINATOR DETACHMENT [400]
4 Terminators, Chaplain

WHIRLWINDS [375]
4 Whirlwinds, Hunter

LAND SPEEDERS [225]
4 Landspeeder, Typhoon

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts


Last edited by Angel_of_Caliban on Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:26 am 
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Hmmm, not to butt in and change the course of any topics, but why are Tac units and Land Raiders considered the suck?

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:32 am 
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splash wrote:
Hmmm, not to butt in and change the course of any topics, but why are Tac units and Land Raiders considered the suck?

Not so much that they suck but there are better choices in the list. Land Raider were really consdier overpriced/underpowered, however that has been fix? But still are not taken as often. I direct you to the Land Raider thread of a million pages for more info. But now there 75pts each with a formation at 350 with FF4+ I believe. So we may start seeing more of them. But most players believe ground pounder SM lists just aren't as good when you can take Air Assault/Teleporting Termies.

As for Tacticals, again Assault and Dev's are better in their roles. Some say there too pricey too. Some folk wanna make a Tactical formation 275. Might see more use of them they say. I mean if your writing a Airborne list(Only Winning Kind some say) wouldn't you rather have 4 Assault units supported by 4 Goof FF units OR 6 All round okay guys?


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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:42 am 
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Compared to Devs I do see that Tacs are a bit undergunned at least. However, I never thought Land Raiders were underpowered. Alot fo my actual Epic gaming experience is several years old, but Land Raiders have always been the hardest-hitting armor that SM can bring to the table...and they can carry troops.

I will check through the anti-Tac unit and anti-LR unit pages more and see what's exactly going on. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:59 am 
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Eldar and Imperial Guard are pretty balanced, though certain sorts of Guard list can be a bit challenging for a certain sort of Eldar list to play.

eBay is your friend for picking up epic and search for international items too, as I guess it works out cheaper to buy epic from the this side of the pond sometimes despite the postage costs (I know I seem to sell more epic on eBay to Americans and Europeans than actual British people).

You should split off the Terminators (which work best when teleported) from the Land Raiders and have the two as separate units. 9 activations is a low for Marines but 10 is better.

It was agreed relatively recently in the ongoing playtesting/discussions that the price-cost for a Tactical formation would drop to 275 as people had been grumbling about them overpriced for what they do for years. That change was made after the draft Net-EA list document (which I guess you're using?) it'll be reflected in the upcoming all in-one army book when that goes on line (we hear occasional progress reports but it's taking a long while to coordinate and sort out). I recommend playing Tacticals at 275 since that's what they're agreed to be worth.

You may want to get a Supreme Commander too, most people do as the re-roll is useful.

You've got two Thunderhawks, but are going mostly mechanised so have nothing to put in them. You may want to re-think and put a good assault unit or two in one plus a Chaplain, or drop down to just the one Thunderhawk and use the points on Land Speeders instead. Your army currently lack any units with scout and they're very useful in EpicA.

It’s a bit jumbled in there but check out the Strategy and Tactics forum as there should be a lot of helpful tips in there.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:04 am 
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A lot of useful tips indeed, I was just hoping to be pointed to some examples of good all around lists.
Thanks for the advice and I'm reading through the Strategy and Tactics forum!


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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:02 am 
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I'm no Marine expert, but many armies seem to include a rhino-mounted tactical formation even in air assault lists. It gets a hunter for AA and a supreme commander, and is a very tough formation (which it has to be, as it contains the SC and is usually the BTS). 1 or 3 Razorbacks is also good for increasing numbers.

Does anybody have the link to the page with the armies from EUK tournaments?


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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:35 am 
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I like to add land raiders to devastator formations.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:07 am 
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Ulrik wrote:
I'm no Marine expert, but many armies seem to include a rhino-mounted tactical formation even in air assault lists. It gets a hunter for AA and a supreme commander, and is a very tough formation (which it has to be, as it contains the SC and is usually the BTS). 1 or 3 Razorbacks is also good for increasing numbers.

Does anybody have the link to the page with the armies from EUK tournaments?

I always include a tactical formation as a BTS - tacticals+Supreme commander+hunter+razorback. Provides AA and is quite a difficult BTS to kill.
This is the list I last used
Tacticals+SC+Hunter+Razorback
Devastators
Scouts+2 Razorback
Scouts
Terminators+Chaplain
Land Speeders
Thunderhawk
Thunderhawk
Thunderbolts
Warhound
Warhound
Strike cruiser

Warhounds try and take out AA, strike cruiser tries to guess where artillery might be/disrupts deployment. Tbolts provide AA, scouts, speeders+ devs support assaults and use their speed, tacs move steadily forward to support where needed, terminators always air assault (except when there are nightwings) and try to recycle them with the 2nd thunderhawk

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:35 pm 
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really useful thread for beginners this, I'll second the request for sample lists, I came up with something like this for my guard... (using the army list in the E:A rulebook)

HQ with fire support
infantry company
tank company

hydra battery
manticore battery
vulture squadron
shadowsword
warhound

how does that look as both the basis of an all-round army and shopping list?

and I too will email forgeworld and see if they have any warhounds laying around..... was the suggestion based on the knowledge that they do have some, or was it pure speculation?

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:41 pm 
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Quote:
HQ with fire support
infantry company
tank company

hydra battery
manticore battery
vulture squadron
shadowsword
warhound


I am not an experienced player but I would always an extra hydra to every company (HQ/Inf/Tank) If your formation of hydras breaks (if one is destroyed) your all out of AA fire. Also its easier to get AA coverage with 3 single hydras then with only one formation. Usually ill add one formation of thunderbolts to CAP just to get some more AA power.

Artillery-wise I would take a battery of basilisks so your opponent gets shot at every turn and has no save turn. I usually only use manticores as a second battery combined with basilisks.
Otherwise I always try to have at least 9 activations, seems kinda standart but I am sure the players with more games on their back will have more to say. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:47 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
and I too will email forgeworld and see if they have any warhounds laying around..... was the suggestion based on the knowledge that they do have some, or was it pure speculation?


Based on the last page of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16528&start=300

(note: ignore the thread title... FW killed their Epic stuff again about a year after that thread started)


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 Post subject: Re: Considering Epic...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:23 pm 
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in case anyone is interested, I emailed forgeworld and the following reply arrived today:

"regrettably these models are currently out of stock due to sever mould quality issues, we hope to return them to stock in future but due to the amount of re-work required we don't know when this will be, unfortunately"

so there you have it, I'm going to give them a call in a couple of days time to see if someone gives a different story, but it seems they don't have any at present

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