I seem to remember that there was a command crawler described in Titanicus, seemed similar to a Majoris in description but had hydras and other weapon systems I can't remember off the top of my head. Would that not have a place in the Scitarii list?

I also remember the Scitarii having vultures in Titanicus, which I guess might be taking too much away from the guard list, just thought it might be appropriate if you were looking to add some fast units.

I remember the description of that Crawler quite vividly. I plan to model it for my Admech army (sketches stage, found and bought the basic chassis for the kit-bashing part). It is described as a very large crawler (8 hydra turrets are mentioned), but not very high (compared to the proportions of the CI or Leviathan models of old), since it has only 5 decks, which would make it less than 20 meters high, so it would be much wider and longer than high.

However, if I understand correctly, this army list isn't particularly inspired by the Titanicus book, so I doubt it will make an appearance here.

I'd like to use Titanicus as my main inspiration for my Admech forces and will probably start a list more along those lines soon.

scan the sketches? or are they of the 'personal' (incomprehensible) nature?

when I read titanicus, the giant crawler was the coolest thing and i always kinda saw it as the experimental giant tank from Supreme Commander (big blue tank in link)

http://www.straferight.com/forums/attac ... pcomfa.jpg

that's how i would do one up(with a few minor changes)

Hi I thought I would add a few thoughts to this discussion since I am currently building a Skitarii force for epic!

Firstly I agree with evil and chaos that list doesn’t quite feel right and obviously hasn’t reached its full potential yet.

The removal of the guard for the list I feel was a move in the right direction – the Mechanicus keep the best gear for themselves the second best to the marines and the leftovers go to the guard after all!

The revised list that C&E posted is a step in the right direction for unit choice – the Mechanicus should have access to more limited choices in terms of units but a far greater choice in armaments and upgrades.

So we have to ask ourselves, what is making the list feel incomplete? I my opinion it is lacking how I see the fundamental aspects of a Mechanicus army at war – technology. Yes we currently have access to all the titan weapons and the unique units but we have no rules/abilities present that give us the crazy backwards army we all love!

The way I see it the Mechanicus army needs to be defined by its warmachines – maybe a look into using void shields more than damage capacity (something that almost no other race does) – in dark apostle the Ordinatus Minoris are almost nothing more than a cannon strapped to some tracks – but are protected by banks of shields. If anything goes near them and they have no infantry support they are royally screwed…

I like the sound of the AA being added to the Ordinatus maybe adding it to all the major warmachines and removing the hunter would again help define that list more – more AA protection than most armies but a weaker version of it.

Keep in the rhinos if nothing more than to help those of us that can’t quite get hold of any gorgonzolas atm. As for the knights – I have no idea what you could be done for them!

One last thing – maybe some static defenses might be a good addition (after all this is a PDF force!) the deathstrike missile silo from the krieg list might be good and maybe some one shot ground defenses/bunkers might be a nice touch and add in some much needed low point cost activations which the list is lacking atm!

Anyway thanks for reading my long post!

Deathsarmour

I independently wanted to suggest this approach too! (been busy with uni work and taken ages to finish off what I mostly wrote a while back).

That’s just not how things are in the background. Leman Russ are ubiquitous everywhere but Machariuses are a newer product of Lucius Forge World as they’d lost the skills to build the true Martian pattern Baneblades (the story’s a bit more complicated in that by the time they were producing Machiuses they got the ok to build their own simple/lower-tech version of the Baneblade, but since the Machariuses had proved popular they carried on making them as well as their pattern Baneblades). Mars and older style Forge World look down on Machariuses though and definitely not use them in their armies. It’s the Machariuses that are the rarer, variant tank used by only a subset of Forge Worlds and not something associated with Ad-Mech in general or anything. Replacing Leman Russes with Machariuses for one general Adeptus Mechanicus list would be as silly and inappropriate as replacing all Predator Destructors/Annihilators with Baal Predators in the general Space Marine list.

There is a Forge World tank that should absolutely be in the list but it’s not the Macharius – to give some Forge World quotes “Valdor Tank Hunter, an ancient design… more common in the forces of the Adeptus Mechanicus.” [During the Heresy the Valdor was] “principally a weapon deployed by the loyal Adeptus Mechanicus…So it remain to this day” Given we have rare clear attribution to them why is this arcane relic of dark age high technology not included in the list? There’s also a prototype Valdor amongst the Heresy CCG artwork and Valdors will obviously be in the W40k Ad-Mech list when/if FW get round to it. They could either be added as units and/or be the upgrade to Leman Russ formations instead of the current super-heavies.

The key thematic ability which is shared by all Adeptus Mechanicus in W40; i.e. Tech Priests, Masters of the Forge, Engineers and Servitors – is the ability to repair damaged vehicles on the battlefield back into the fight. I think a ‘Blessing of the Omnisiah’ special rule should be added to the epic list, giving each Tech Priest, Tech Lord and Forge Knight a special ability to repair. It should be a small boost rather than anything OTT but it would be very characterful in the list and help differentiate them.

The mechanism of the rule could be debated and this isn’t necessarily the best way, but as a first draft suggestion something like: “Blessing of the Omnisiah: Armoured Vehicles or War Engines within 10cm of an un-broken and not in close-combat unit with this ability may take a repair save against hit(s) should they have failed their other save(s). This repair saves them on a 6+ and may not be used against Macro-Weapon attacks or Close Combat attacks. Infantry cannot be repaired.”

Forge Knights – backgroundwise they’re construction/repair machines pressed into combat and their stats are really quite bad at representing this at the moment. 30cm is a bit OTT for a construction lance, 15cm would be plenty. On what basis do they have infiltrate?? A normal Paladin doesn’t and I don’t see any justification for a construction robot to be faster and nippier, the opposite would be more likely. I would rather see them take become less close-combat monsters of the list and more weaker, cheaper repair machines. Incidentally you’re welcome to use my Forge Knight pic in the list if you like, plastic paladins can count as Forge Knights but without converting they don’t really look like the part.

I’m in the camp that thinks Ordinatus should be rarish even in Ad-Mech armies rather than standard. I’m not keen on using them using hunters or rhinos either, though the one unit I think they should definitely include is the Thunderfire Cannon – it’s a perfect high tech weapon we know the Ad-Mech have and use.

We have masses of craftworld and chapter lists and though we may not have Adeptus Mechanicus army lists in W40k but there’s plenty of background about them and their vehicles; particularly Mars and Lucius. I think the best solution could be to split the Ad-Mech list into variants:

Martian Skitiarii ‘older/higher/purer-tech’ list:
Mars pattern Shadowswords and Baneblades (no Stormswords or Stormblades)
Mars Alpha Leman Russ Vanquishers only?
Minotaurs replacing Manticores and Bombards (they’re the oldest imperial tank and very high-tech and difficult to maintain – perfect fit here).
No Machariuses.
Units of Valdors?
Mars Ordinatus only of the 'special character' Ordinatii?

Lucius Skitiarii ‘newer/second-generation-tech’ list:
Machariuses instead of Russes
Manticores/Bombards
Lucius pattern Baneblades and Stormblades (no Shadowswords as the implication is they make Stormblades instead as they lack the advanced tech for the former).
Perhaps more limited numbers of Ordinatii for Lucius due to their lower tech??

Ryza Skitiarii ‘Plasma’ list:
Executioner Russes only
No Machariuses
Stormblade (no Shadowsword)
Scout Titans MUST take 1+ Plasma Blastguns, Battle Titans MUST take at least 2 plasma weapons

Keep everything else identical in the rest of the lists then I reckon.

Plus an Ordo Reductor 'siege' variant:
Minotaurs
Gorgons
Hellebores, Mores and Termites
Land Raider Achilles
Siege Dreadnoughts

Other things – as much as I love the model for the Gorgon what’s it really doing in the list? It’s a dedicated siege transport and the normal Ad-Mech list isn’t especially siege associated. I say take it out and leave it for the Ordo Reductor variant only.
The list doesn’t have much variety in the infantry. Perhaps close combat only servitors/hydapists could be added in? Normal human sized Legio Cybernetica robots? Elite teleporting infantry??
Why are we considering the Skitiarii to be a defensive PDF anyway? It might fit the background for E&Cs Gryphonne IV campaign, but not the nature of the Skitiarii in general. The have huge massively armed fleets and forces out looking for STCs and lost tech in their Quest for Knowledge and are perfectly willing to attack if they think they might be able to. I could easily imagine Ad-Mech armies trying to reclaim lost revered titans, or fallen Forge Worlds.

Sorry, that ended up very long. Back to the work now...

I really like Glyn's idea about Tech Priests being able to repair vehicles in some manner.

How about something like:



Forge Knights and Tech Priests would get this ability as Glyn suggests.

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I don't mind seeing the repair save but I am curious how this interacts with a unit of forgeknights since they already get a 6+ shield save. Would they effectively get three saves? First their reinforced armor save, then their 6+ shield save and last their 6+ repair save?

Glyn, right now forge knights just aren't the CC monsters you make them out to be. They are one shot weapons that evaporate once bm stack up. They don't even do that well in CC despite having infiltrate to aid getting them there and the extra MW attack. Stripping their stats of infiltrate, CC, and shooting would just make them plain worthless. I know I could never justify taking them in either the Titan legions or Skitarii list to get a 6+ repair save without them being cheaper than a sentinel detachment.

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Let's get this list down before we start worrying about varients.

I like the idea of incredibly fragile ordinatus but with loads of shields.

Is a special rule really justified to give a 6+ save occasionally? If you really want a repairing thing going on, why not just make a "Tech Adepts" or "Repair Servitors" character that's cheap, available for any vehicle and gives an invulnerable save?

If you were going for that silly special rule though, I'd definitely replace sentinels with the power-lifter version, for the coolness. Hell, I'd do that anyway!

+1
When things go thier way (quite rare really) they can be threatening but otherwise they have a giant bullseye on them. I like them as they are - high risk/high reward units.

I much prefer zombocom's idea of a "Tech Adepts" or "Repair Servitors" character that's cheap, available for any vehicle and gives an invulnerable save? to the previous suggestion. KISS.

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how about this for the blessing of the Omnishiah ability:



it sort of simulates the ability of techpriests to keep the engines going without needing to resort to more saves.

as for the knights i would like to see them take over the role that sentinals cover atm - a light cheep unit that is there to annoy and hold up enemy units while the slower war engines plod across the board...



as far as i can remember from the background the Majoris is fairly rair (although not as rear as say an imperator) and the minoris is quite common as a support formation i think E&C has managed to get a fair representaion of them in the list, although adding in the thunderfire cannon would be a nice new option. i dont agree on removing the rhinos though, we need somekind of transport ability beyond a very expensive minoris or the gorgon - at least the rhino can represent any kind of transport that the michanicus is going to use...

deathsarmour

From the point of view of them being lighter, cheaper and more manouverable than the main war engines, yes. But they're not cheap and not there to do the job of Sentinels. Twice the size, much heavier armoured and suitably up-gunned means that that's not how they're fighting.

I'm very happy, having read Mechanicum, with the image of Forge Knights as being high-tech battle-tank equivalents. Them being walkers with mind-impulse type control systems makes them much much more high-tech than Leman (et al) tanks, even though they fill the similar role.

I am not yet settled on a design, but it is coming. I don't know if I will make it as a Blog, documented WIP project or if I will do everything in secret and reveal my project suddenly when it's finished. I like the latter, but a WIP blog could probably help me keep my motivation, so I am starting to lean that way... Which probably explain me speaking about it here
I'll probably need to get some additional skills before starting this however (press-moulding at least, possibly some casting).

My vision of it will be more inspired by the original Capitol Imperialis overall shape, and it will be huge. I have also started to write about this specific construct.

Originally I was going to go for something a bit larger than the original, but now I want a very large model, something really towering, but it comes with quite some challenge when it comes to giving a sense of scale, and I don't like details for the sake of details so I need to be extra careful at design stage and hope for the best, and I will probably build and base it as a piece that can be used both as a gaming piece or a terrain piece.