I have read up on the Painlord and Reviler and compared the weapons.

It appears that all the firing arcs are correct as per the Quick reference guide, so no change is necessary.

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3 more days to go to gain feedback on this list before I freeze it for 1 year.

- So far, I am considering/looking at possible replacement name for the Sonars.
- I will not be including/considering an INF scout formation for this version

Any other feedback or suggestions? If so, please make them known

Cheers.....

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How come the deamon princes in the EC list are different from the ones in the BL list I know that they are bound to have different weapons but surely it should have at least 1 TK.just seems a bit wierd


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Matt

DP in the BL list are losing TK

Matt. Which BL list are you referring to?

In the most recent NetEA project, the TK weapon was removed from the Daemon Prince.

You will also note that the EC Daemon Prince attacks are different, and yet more importantly, the Daemon Prince is also a Supreme Commander. More in line with your older Primarchs than the BL version of a Daemon Prince. You do pay for it however...

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Aahh fair enough I was going by the list that was on the workshop website,found a hard copy of it the other night,for some reason it didn't occur to me that it was out of date.

Cheers
Matt

@Reviler: Has he really only one Tormentor? The stats look very similar to a Vulcan-Megabolter plus Disrupt.

I looked up the old V2 army list and there the Reviler can be armed with 0-2 Tormentors or 0-2 Hellblades.

This actually solves the Fire Arc issues

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Did I miss something in the V2 list?

*goes and checks*

Your right BL! No idea how I missed that. I will get this changed as well it seems. Probably makes the Reviler more worth it now.

Thanks for being so observant BL.

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I am extending the date for the freeze by another day or two to take into account the ruling for Initiative (Daemon Engines going to 2+ initiative).

I need to make a judgement call on how it effects the list, to what extent Daemon Engines will play a part, and whether cost reductions are warranted.

I will keep the list updated with my thoughts and findings.

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What's the critical on the painlord,came across it today when it charged a necron abatoir.

Overall its a nice force to use,managed a respectable draw against necrons


Cheers
Matt

Fromthe V2 army list:
Critical Hit Effect: The Painlord is wounded and the daemon within screams in pain and pleasure, overloading its sonic weaponry with psychic feedback. The Titan immediately gains D3 Blast Markers, and any formation within 2D6cms also gains a Blast Marker.

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When I freeze the list I will no doubt go in and enter important datafax information such as this.

I will look at that one in particular. Although it appears quite fluffy, I have to balance that with other 'Warlord Class' titan effects (I have not actually looked at WE critical hit effects yet).

Already the Painlord Titan is easier to kill (albeit it is slightly cheaper). If the example from V2 is vastly different, then I would probably be inclined to leave it out for the first freeze.

I will get to it when the weekend starts for me (probably in 24 hours time).

Cheers BL.

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Following up on the Critical Hit Effects. I am placing them all here (what I have found so far) for easy comparrison:

Subjugator
Critical Hit Effect: The Subjugator is caught off-balance and staggers. Move it D6cm in a random direction. If this move takes the Subjugator into impassable terrain
or another unit it can’t move over then it stops when it contacts the obstruction and suffers an extra point of damage. If it staggers into or over any units then they
will take a hit on a D6 roll of 6+ (make saving throws for the units normally).

Questor
Critical Hit Effect: The Questor is caught off-balance and staggers. Move it D6cm in a random direction. If this move takes the Questor into impassable terrain or
another unit it can’t move over then it stops when it contacts the obstruction and suffers an extra point of damage. If it staggers into or over any units then they will
take a hit on a D6 roll of 6+ (make saving throws for the units normally).

Keeper of Secrets
Critical Hit Effect: The greater daemon is hurled back into the warp and destroyed. Any daemonic units within 5cms will be dragged back into the warp with the
greater daemon and destroyed on a roll of 6.


Reviler Titan (V2 Alternatives)
Critical Hit Effect: The Reviler is wounded and the daemon within screams in pain and pleasure, overloading its sonic
weaponry with psychic feedback. The Titan immediately gains D3 Blast Markers, and any formation within 2D6cms also
gains a Blast Marker.


Painlord Titan (V2 Alternatives)
Critical Hit Effect: The Painlord is wounded and the daemon within screams in pain and pleasure, overloading its sonic
weaponry with psychic feedback. The Titan immediately gains D3 Blast Markers, and any formation within 2D6cms also
gains a Blast Marker.


--------------
Comparrisons
--------------

Banelord Titan
Critical Hit Effect: The Banelord is driven into a daemonic rage and immediately moves 3D6cm in a random direction. If this move takes the Banelord into
impassable terrain or another unit it can’t move over then it stops when it contacts the obstruction and suffers an extra point of damage. If the Titan rampages into
or over any units then they will take a hit on a D6 roll of 4+ (make saving throws for the units normally).


Ravager Titan
Critical Hit Effect: The Ravager's plasma reactor has been damaged. Roll a D6 for the Ravager in the end phase of every turn: on a roll of 1 the reactor explodes
destroying the Ravager, on a roll of 2-3 the Reaver suffers one more point of damage, and on a roll of 4-6 the reactor is repaired and will cause no further trouble. If
the reactor explodes, any units within 5cms of the Ravager will be hit on a roll of 5+.


Warlord/Reaver Titan
Critical Hit Effect: The ******* plasma reactor has been damaged. Roll a D6 for the Warlord in the end phase of every turn: on a roll of 1 the reactor explodes
destroying the Warlord, on a roll of 2-3 the Warlord suffers one more point of damage, and on a roll of 4-6 the reactor is repaired and will cause no further trouble. If
the reactor explodes, any units within 5cms of the Warlord will be hit on a roll of 4+ (5+ for the Reaver).

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The Banelord appears to get off the lightest out of all the 'Warlord Titan' options.

Whilst the Warlord has a small chance of being destroyed from a wound, it either gains another, or repairs it's reactor to suffer no further damage

In comparrison the Painlord & Reviler appear to not take the damage yet suffer from being broken (especially seeing they have one less DC than their counterparts).


Thoughts

Whilst the Painlord seems to take no more damage, I am not sure whether it is preferable to the small chance of utter destruction or better chance of repair (the Warlord as the example) than being broken. Effectively the Warlord has >80% chance of still being alive and fully functional to keep fighting. The painlord effectively has a very good chance of being broken at this point.

The Banelord appears to just be a killing machine no matter what. This combined with being cheaper than a Warlord and higher SR than most other armies besides Marines who use Warlords, it's critical effect is awesome in comparrison.

So what do I do with the Painlord? At 800 points is its weaponry far superior to both the Warlord and the Banelord to justify being 800 points and having such a critical effect? The same goes for the Reviler in comparrison to the Revear and Ravager.

I will look into it, however I would be interested in everyone else's view in regards to comparrisons.

Also remembering
- the Painlord and Reviler are 1 less DC than their counterparts...
- the Painlord and Reviler have +5cm move above their counterparts...

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EC weapon layouts

Painlord
Psi-pulse 45cm MW3+ Titan Killer (D3), Fixed Forward
Tormentor 45cm 4x AP3+/AT5+ Disrupt, Forward Arc
Excruciator 45cm 3BP Disrupt, Macro-weapon, Ignore Cover, Fixed Forward
Energy Whip Base Contact Assault Weapons MW, Extra attack (+3)


Reviler
Psi-pulse 45cm MW3+ Titan Killer (D3), Fixed Forward Arc
2x Tormentor 45cm 4x AP3+/AT5+ Disrupt, Forward Arc
OR
2x Hellblades Base Contact Assault Weapons Extra attack (+1), Titan Killer (D3)

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