Good point.  I actually used unmounted FW with the Crisis the last game I played (a while ago).  Those provided support for the Crisis - FF cover or at least a threat of counterattack.  The 15cm/20cm move differential isn't much, especially if you have a garrison position that's tactically convenient for the FW to have a head start.


I agree with this.  I just would have thought that being on the deployment zone, with their range, on OW, would have been pretty good protection.  It's hard to judge accurately from pics.


Yeah.  This is a really crappy compromise.  For my part I feel very strongly they should be vulnerable to AT, which means LV, but at the same time it would be nice if they had true infantry mobility rather than vehicle/walker.  They are, imho, the single best argument for a "heavy infantry" unit type in the game.


Out of curiosity, did you think about doubling them forward with the Crisis suits?  It looks like they could have been in the AA/OW protection zone, in support range of the Crisis, and still gotten to fire.


Heh.  Yeah.  That was a heck of a hot LZ and heinous bad luck for you.  No way would I have done that if I had been E&C.  I'd have gone for the FW or just strafed a vulnerable target.

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General question... for fire support, have you used FW + Broadsides + Skyray?  It packs a decent punch (general purpose firepower, potential assault ability) and can garrison AA/markerlight.

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Neal

How many activations would you use up on this action Neal?


You're on the NetERC, have at it!  


I think I would have used this tactic as much as possible too. It's the "Tau Bastion" idea. Formation clusters stay within close range as much as possible to provide A/Deterrent B/FF support and C/multiple Co-Fi opportunities on the attacking formation. Have you considered having a Fusion-Head formation in the mix, Ryan? It's amazing how much aversion to assaults/teleports they create. 4-6 Fusion heads with a Skyray in tow in close proximity can deter a terminator teleport on your BTS and they can really hurt armour if you can get within 30cm. Obviously your opponent can choose something else to engage but they are a great Close-protection formation  


I've noticed you guys use very few woods in your games and those you do are tiny. Your tables are usually very open from what I see.

@nealhunt:

crisis suits haven't lost any speed really and can easily keep up with mounted FW's. Remember the 10cm move after shooting or if zombos addition is added after marching as well.

Broadsides: There was no real cover for them to be in near my deployment zone. I could have deployed them behind something but that would have wasted their area denial potential.

FW's: I did consider it but then he would have landed out of support fire range or clipped them and I would have been down by 4 before the roll. Air assaults are the bane of Tau as it can be very hard to prepare for them.

FW's and Broadsides: I used to use a similar formation dropping in a Manta as an assault beast. It worked fairly well once as nobody saw it coming, but then they adapted. In the current list I wouldn't consider it, but only due to the relative points cost of Mech FW's and non-Mech FW's. It is still on paper a very good formation.

@Dobbsy:

Fusion heads: I have considered it and plan to do so soon. I am a big fan of the tank. The only problem I have is deciding what to leave out of the list I'm using.

Terrain: We usually use what Ben has in his box of mystery. Normally a whole lot of buildings, trenches etc. I'm not sure how many woods there are in it.

That depends, but given that they could be targeted with impunity I probably would have pecked at them as long as I could get away with.  The SMs could develop their position while doing it.  Probably 2, maybe 3.

Just as an example, Whirlwinds then Devs just as E&C did (no viable targets for teh Broadside OW).  Devs are forward some and in hard cover.  At that point, they've lost 1/3 of their firepower minimum or, if the SMs get a single kill (which they have a decent chance to do), 2/3.  The SMs have moved forward, nothing's exposed, the Broadsides' area denial ability is significantly lessened (damaging the effectiveness of their potential activation), and the Tau have had to burn stall activations while the SMs actually did things that were effective - not great, but effective.  In terms of activation count, the SMs are keeping up or maybe gaining.



Consensus was that it was not needed. I'm chair of a committee, not dictator.

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Neal

The way I see it, in terms of a beeline the Crisis can keep up with the mounted infantry.  If you want to use the Jetpack move defensively, they might not.  More important than total movement, though, is movement before firing.  Crisis are stuck at 40cm compared to 60cm for mounted FW.  20cm is a big difference when every 15cm is an important range increment for both formations.  Even 10cm on Advance can be an issue.  It's not dysfunctional but there is a noticeable difference in mobility.

I'm probably wrong about the combo, though.

I last played in version 5.  With the smaller/cheaper mounted FW formations to help activation count and the price premium on groundpounder FW, the increased efficiencies likely make up for the disadvantages of the larger speed differential.  Crisis/Mech probably work just as well as Crisis/Ground for the points.


I figure you're down ~4 staying in place and Marshalling due to the fact that you'll face CC.  You'll get +2 on BMs, but you're down ~3 on kills, -1 outnumbered and -2 Inspiring.  The main difference I saw was that moving forward forced the OW.

Speaking of OW, OW on the FW seems like it would have been a good defensive option as well.  5-6 OW hits, some of them Disrupt, would have been almost as good on BMs as a Marshall (3 kills/disrupts between OW and AA and you're ahead on BMs) and would have killed some SMs before the fight.

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Neal

Aye, I wouldn't normally have been so agressive either, but I was testing Hena's "Thuderbrick" theory to the hilt.


Lucky for me, the FW formation failed to activate and opened the flank wide for an air assault.

Thumbs up for the humble Land Speeder Typhoon that laid the BM that forced the activation fail!


There are two woods in the box, though all the trees have fallen off.

We used one 'wood' in this game.


This game had:

15 buildings
3 bunkers (fortifications)
2 ruins
1 wood

I wouldn't consider that especially sparse.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

So, should Broadside Suits get a 'note' that says:

Treat Broadside Suits as Infantry for terrain purposes ?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I wouldn't be opposed.

Speaking of Broadsides, one major change in 6.X that I did not notice before was their cut to 30cm range.  That's huge.  I had picked up they had been dinged a bit but I had no idea they were cut so harshly.

What's up with that?

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Neal

Totally a typo. Their stats are correct on the reference sheet page I believe.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Awesome.  I was completely boggled.

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Neal

For 50pts, I think taking Warhounds as two singles instead of a pair is worth more than that little Vindicator... but even I can't see it being worth only 25pts as an upgrade...

...I can't, right?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter