Very interesting report. I loved the thematic, if a bit insane, SM air assault. I think I really expected you to be spanked pretty hard with that maneuver, but as the SAS say, "Who dares, wins".

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I would echo E&C's comments on the viability of his LS formation. Adding the Typhoon to the formation gives it additional capabilities that make it a much more attractive formation.

Thanx for sharing.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Yup, I've seen great success with that LS formation; the ability to apply a BM on the first turn against a static enemy is a very useful one, while only very slightly diluting the FF and short-ranged damage possible.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

I had Hena's advice about the resilience of "Thunderbricks" (from when we met at the 2008 London Tournament) firmly in mind when sending in the air assault, as I knew that establishing a position in that area of the board (if I could do it) would likely win me the game, taking out a key formation and setting up a big threat for turn 2.

It was my second-last activation for that reason, the last being to double the Predators to claim a Crossfire on the Hammerheads, also setting them up as a threat going into turn 2 if I won the strategy roll (another Hena-speciality, incidentally).


On the other hand, LS Tornados are simply worse than the Multi-Melta speeders, IMO, and don't bring any great capability boost when added as singles either.


The Typhoon is similar to the Attack Bike, in that it's not all that useful to the 'simulation' part of the game, but it is very useful to the meta-game of BM laying and setting up Engagements.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Where did you play btw folks? I have a fairly sizeable flat but I'm not sure I could squeeze in that many people and a board comfortably!

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Great Scott!

That's what I think should have been done.  For purposes of where that BM goes after the assault, I would put the BM for coming under fire on the closest formation to the firing unit.


I think the crossfire kill is only 1 bonus BM for the pre-assault determination.  Post-assault I would put it on the formation that took the crossfire casualty.  If more than one formation took a casualty from the crossfire, I would put it on the closest to the firing formation, like the BM for coming under fire.

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Neal

At my (our) place.

By shifting the chairs around a bit we have had two simultanious gaming boards out sometimes.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

You're right it does make sense to only apply 1BM as they are applied before the Engagement, but then allocated afterwards.

Two formations took casualties from the Crossfire (T-hawk one DC, and Assault 1 lost two units), so I chose between the two and chose to break the Assault Marines rather than break-and-destroy the Thunderhawk.

Can't remember which one was closest but we'll probably play it that way if it comes up again.

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Can you explain this?  To me, this seems like a non-issue.  You're talking Assault Marines against FW.  If I'm reading the picture right, one of the Devilfish was loaded (i.e. pinnable with the Thawk) and attacking them entails no more AA than the Crisis.  Barring disastrous die rolls Marines should have come out of that +3 or +4 on resolution even with the FW getting +2 for BMs.  It might not be a wipeout but you would likely have killed 1/2-2/3 of the formation and broken it.


While I understand in general what you guys were doing, there seems to be a lot of critical pieces in this game that I just don't understand.  I don't understand the Tau deployment (maybe a right flank press to try for T&H/Blitz?).  I have no clue what the intent of the Whirlwinds was on Turn 1, and so on.  I'm sure you had reasons.  They just aren't apparent from the description and commentary.

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Neal

I wanted to wipe out a formation, not just hurt it, and with that prospect unlikely for the Fire Warriors I went for the Crisis Suits. All FW's were outside of the transports.

I also may have been playing mind games with Ryan's Fire Warriors, in pressuring them to Marshall instead of doing something more useful and been intent on persuing 'Plan B' all along, but you'll never get me to admit to that.  I have no idea what I'm doing when I play Epic, honest!


You'll have to ask Ryan on that. Personally I think he's highly afraid of Marines when using his Tau (his Tau have almost never beaten Marines, and never in more recent iterations), and it affects his playstyle (lots of Doubling on turn 1 to shoot ASAP, instead of holding back and using his superior range as an advantage).


They wanted to hit the Broadside formation, IIRC. I didn't think it'd be a terrible thing to lose their BM so went for the retain on the off chance I passed the roll.


I would write a better commentary, but honestly this game was a wash. I rolled above average all game, whilst Ryan rolled a bit low and made tactical mistakes that I exploited mercilessly.

Ryan, leave some thoughts would you?

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My general plan was to try to keep the Tau bunched up to discourage unsupported assaults and try to avoid the bunker cluster that his brother had insisted on placing in the center of the table. Once his marines made it in their and I knew they would I wouldn't be able to shift them out.

I find marines very hard to defeat with Tau. I rarely win a properly thought out assault and I normally can't break them through shooting. This and being jumped on by TH assaults and termies has made me a bit timid when facing them. Thus explaining the plan slightly. I needed to keep together keep within my AA cover and attempt to take objectives whilst avoiding a sizable chunk of the table.

Also it must be said E&C's above average rolling in the last two games was slightly annoying. We have another one tonight and hopefully the laws of karma will bring a bit more balance.

Actually I don't think I can make tonight's game now, something's come up sorry.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Agree. In the past, I've been able to jump on Tau and unless they get away pretty quickly, get beat up. I primarily play a drop pod/air assault SM army.

Two of my next three opponents are SM players, though the Saim Hann are my historical nemesis.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Fair enough.  I understand that completely.  Within that general strategy, though, there were a few things that looked odd to me.

I'm totally arm-char quarterbacking here, so feel free to blow me off.

The broadsides were awfully exposed in their garrison.  I didn't see any way to reasonably support them before they could be targeted.  As it is they did get a chance to get in their licks, but if I had been on the Marine side I would have pecked at them until they either wasted their OW on an unimportant formation or had so many BMs it didn't matter that they were on OW.

The mix of Crisis and mech FW has never made sense to me.  Although my Tau experience is limited, they've just never worked for me.  The speed differential makes it hard for them to work well together.  If the FW have a target of opportunity that requires quick movement the suits cannot keep up, but if they never leave the suits, then you're paying a lot of points for mobility you can't use.

I think I would have generally shifted to the left flank and let the right T&H go.  I also would have paired the Crisis together.  With the cluster of objectives on the left, Crisis suits on the left would be in a position where the enemy had to come to them, a good thing given the Crisis' speed.  The cover was scarce but they have good saves and fairly small formations to use what little is available.

That would create a speedier Mech-Armor-Mech right flank, where everything had a similar speed for mutual support.  Infantry that found themselves without transport had plenty of cover and the Hammerheads could use the buildings for pop-up cover.  If in the late game that right flank objective looked promising, there would be fast units close enough to snag it.  Ditto for an end-around against the Blitz.

The Broadsides could have garrisoned off the Blitz objective to start on OW and a bit forward of the deployment zone.  Their range would cover the entire army at setup, doubling up with Skyray AA umbrella.  Also, that area had good fields of fire, so they could cover forward a long way, either with OW or threat of Sustained Fire.

That all assumes the Marines want to engage the main body of the Tau.  I think that's a fair bet based on the Tau being able to take 3 T&H objectives and still have a strong presence to protect their Blitz.  Plus, the SMs want to assault and that means moving support formations up to support the assaulting formations.

However, if the Marines had run up the middle after the fast stuff to try to isolate part of the Tau army, they'd have to go pretty far forward to get good, clear lines of sight which would defeat the purpose, as the Crisis would then be in a position to help out.  If the Marines cut to their left/Tau right to avoid the slow Crisis entirely, they are giving up that block of objectives and the fast stuff could fight a retrograde while the Crisis moved up to reinforce, basically just rotating the main battle line clockwise.


Anyway... I'm not trying to be a jerk and tell you you're all wrong and a lousy tactician.  I'm just explaining the strategy I would have used.  Things are always different in real life and I could be completely wrong.

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Neal

I do agree that Ryan deployed badly and that let me cut him apart piecemeal.


As to the Mech FW / Crisis Suits, they work superbly in concert if the Mech FW have a Skyray, thus letting the Crisis Suits be used to retain into the area and fire with +1 to hit, very nice!

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What I was attempting was using cover to protect my troops somewhat.There was more of it on the right flank than the left and that to a degree determined deployment. I also usually prefer to spread my FW's out a bit because they are actually pretty good engagement troops. I usually try to position them where they can provide FF support to nearby formations and give cover with their skyray. Crisis suits in particular really need protection from FW's in FF. They seem a bit too fragile since they lost their ablative drone Armour.

Broadsides from my experience need to be in cover with a good LOF. Being LV's they can not enter buildings. We use the rule that if a piece of terrain has 4 walls its a building. 3 or less qualifies a ruin. I had no such terrain that I could garrison in from my blitz. I have also learnt from experience that broadsides on OW don't need a lot of support in the first two activations. After which support can be brought forward if necessary. I tend to use broadsides as a target/area denial formation. They can take an awful lot of punishment if in cover and I had teleported the stealths into a position so they would markerlight the warhounds if they came out to get a shot. I admit they are further forward that I would like but there were precious few areas of cover they could use and I've learnt the hard way to always place them in cover. Predators, Thunderbolts and warhounds can do them significant damage if they're in the open.

I was forced to be a bit more cagey as well because Ben held his TH in reserve until I had activated almost all my units. I tried to cluster as much as possible and give him no easy targets. This was why the FW's marshaled they were an easier target and more valuable than the crisis suits. It should also be noted that the turn 1 air assault was almost destroyed before it began. Some more above average rolling saved the TH.

I did make some errors. The HH move was a mistake. I just didn't see the predators behind the building. Also using co-ord fire was in turn 2 was a mistake as I was trying to use it to get two formations out of engagement range of the marines and then foolishly threw my crisis suits forward to their deaths. I am however not convinced that it was my deployment that allowed Ben to defeat me, rather it was some very silly moves and some very lucky dice.

I hope this in some way explains what I did and why. If you have any more questions please ask. I can always use the advice and constructive criticism.