Don't quote me or set in your calenders just yet, but I'm hoping to work out an Epic section of the Flame On's annual tournament (Battle of the Chumps) likely to be held end of June 2010.

It would be a 2 day weekend at Warhammer world.

We always like to do something a bit different at BotCh, including special secondary missions, varying pts limits, etc. These have worked well for 40k and Warhammer (the game systems ran very well for the past 2-3 years).

This previous tournament and likely next year we crammed in 4 games on the Saturday and 2 on the Sunday. These being 2 small games, then 2 medium games, then on Sunday 2 big games.

If we do an Epic tournament it will be bound by the same time restrictions (for lunch, etc).

We would get 1.5hrs each for the first 2 games- are 2000pts Epic games viable/interesting?

The alternative is to have 1 4000pts game skipping the break giving 3hrs.
Would you rather play 1 big game instead of 2 smaller ones?

The second 2 games would be 2hrs each, I'm looking at 3000pts Epic games.
The Sunday games get 3hrs each, I'm looking at 4000pts Epic games.

My personal experiences have shown the time limits for such pts limits to be well-within what I take to play- but then, my experiences of watching Britcon games has shown other people like to 'take their time'. Do you think that is sufficient time for games?

With the escalating pts limits, we also like to tie army lists together (i.e. your 3000pts list is your 2000pts list plus 1000pts of new stuff). We found that in 40k and Warhammer this put extra restrictions on the player that made the armies fresh and interesting. You couldn't take your tried and tested uber unit or big thing, or gimmick, as you'd have trouble squeezing it into a smaller game, etc.

Would this form of army list escalation put you off, or entice you to come to such a tournament?
(Just set yourself an exercise- write a 3000pts Epic list, then add 1000pts to make it a 4000pts list- is it the same as your 'normal' 4000pts list?)

I guess the obvious question if you've managed to read through all that would be are you interested in attending?

Personally I'd go with 4,000 and 3,000 points, the list are designed to balance in the 3000 to 5000 point range.

And yes I'd be interested in attending.

2000 point games can be fun - especially if you have a 4x4 table so air armies don't just split objectives up massively. You can still get very odd match ups, but one way round that is to have 2 2000 point lists each, see both the opponents, then decide secretly which you want and reveal and play.

If time is tight for the next two games use 2700 point lists, it really shaves off up to 30 minutes off a 3000 point game, largely because the few extra activations armies have are often cut out.

Indeed working on what you suggest (but de-escalating?) that you could have the variation coming from army lists rather than scenarios, providing an element of meta campaign ish planning, is quite neat.

So player has a race and picks a 4000 point army.

From that 4000 point selection of troops picks 2 2000 point armies and can use either in the first two rounds as described above. Then picks a 2700 point army in the same manner for round three and then a different (if they wish) 2700 point army for round 4. Rounds 5 and 6 use the original 4000 point force.

Depending on how much time you have Saturday could even have a 3000 point game round 4.

As for timing I think 2 hours is a little on the short side for some players for 3000 points, but often strangely more do-able at 2700. For 3000 I think most prefer 2 1/2 hours.

Edit - Yes I love such army list messing around and as I'd be back in the UK by then would like to come, nuclear apocalypse allowing.

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I agree with Chris; I too am interested and quite like the idea of 2,000pts / 2,700pts (something different). Only thing that worries me is your times.

1.5hrs for 2,000pts ... ummm could be pushing it but maybe possible (have to try out some 2,000pt games with the bigger armies)

2hrs for 3,000pt games is really tight. At the EPIC UK GT we give 2hrs 20mins and even that is tight. I would recommend TRC's suggestion of 2,700pts

3hrs for 4,000pts is tight again; I think Britcon gave 3hrs 30mins but I'm not too sure. How about 3,400pts

That way you're escalating the points by 700 each time?

Just a thought

I would like to attend depending on the date.

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Unfortunately time limits are the one think that is non-negotiable, we must stick to the schedule of the other systems for lunch, registration, etc.

We have to play with:

Saturday

Game 1 1.5hrs
Game 2 1.5hrs
(Merge Game 1 & 2 to one game of 3.5hrs)

Game 3 2hrs
Game 4 2hrs

Sunday

Game 5 3hrs
Game 6 3hrs

So we can alter the points limit. Your right I have been hung up on '1000pts' marks, going for 2700 or 2500 or 3500, etc is plausible.

2hrs seems adequate for 3000pts to me, it cuts it close- but this is a tournament, not a leisurely game at home. There is a limit to how much slow players can be appeased if I'm brutally honest.
Britcon did have 3.5hrs for 4000pts, and I figured it was more than enough for most of the players, I often had an hour to sit around having finished (win or lose).

How about:

Game 1 & 2= 2000pts (667pts Titan/aircraft) 1.5hrs
Game 3 & 4= 2750pts [add 750pts new formations] (917pts Titan/aircraft) 2hrs
Game 5 & 6= 3500pts [add 750pts new formations] (1167pts Titan/aircraft) 3hrs

I'm happy with the times and pts limits for Game 3, 4, 5, 6.
The 2000pts games are still an untested quantity, I'll have a play at writing some 2000pts army lists, see how they look.

Well, merging games #1 & #2 gives you 5x games of 3 hours and 2 hours. This raises the question whether to use two lists or one? For personal preference, I would suggest trying for one list of 2700 points so that games #2 & #3 are still viable rather than 3000 points which are likely to end up drawn.

As a complete alternative, you could always try playing a series of scenarios like MoK is planing for the January's 'Winter Warmer'.

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Would there be interest in this?

Saturday

Game 1 2000pts 2hrs

Game 2 2750pts 2hrs

Game 3 2750pts 2hrs


Sunday

Game 4 3500pts 3hrs

Game 5 3500pts 3hrs

Your army is a 2000pts standard list, then add 750pts of new formations/units, then add another 750pts of new formations/units. The Titan/Aircraft limit is adjusted for each pts bracket.



5 games of 2700pts? Kind of misses the point of an escalating pts limit TBH.



Alternate missions do look interesting, if not very hard to balance, but am I alone in thinking changing the pts level is a 'safer' options for a tournament than radical new scenarios. Don't get me wrong, if some scenarios do work out to be balanced, I'd look to include them in a later BotCh, but for the first Epic Botch I'd like to play it as 'safe' as possible whilst still doing something a bit different (the escalating pts limits).

I'd be interested. 2000 would be very different and army composition will be tough as the list has to build on what you take at the small bit.

I would definitely be interested

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That's great to hear, I'll try to get more concrete information out when I can (and am allowed).

All the players I spoke to at Into the Breach were up for this format

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I've played a number of games of a certain french scenario called epic minigeddon.

It's designed for games up to 1000 but I found it is was good up to 2000.

It features:
a 4x4 board.
Only two objectives per side instead of 3.
Capture / contest within 10cm.
Only 1 formation can go on overwatch at startup
-1 to rally at 20cm of the enemy rather than 30cm.
No Teleportation
Certain restrictions on the army lists: No Space Craft, flyers, or formations > 400 points.

Its a good game.

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