*cough*

Okay, to recap:
B1 charges A
B2 is nearer to A
A countercharges towards B2 and ends out of range of B1.

Solutions proposed:
Assault doesn't happen (wasted activation).
Go straight to assault resolution.

There's a hitch with this second one. If you do that, you're assuming the assault takes place, the attackers fire their 0 shots, the defenders fire their 0 shots.

Then B2 should have supporting fire before assault resolution.

With that applied, I'd still be inclined to go for the first option (assault never happens, B1 end up looking like plonkers) but if my opponent felt strongly about it I'd be happy to play it the other way.

No, I'm saying if we go to assault resolution as tneva82 is arguing we should (considering it as a normal assault with 0 shots fired from each side) then the supporting fire should still take place.

Thinking about this more, that actually seems* to work fairly well:
Your squad gets trapped, one formation behind you and another charging at you, guns blazing. You can run away into the guns of B2, or you can stand and fight.

I do like the commander idea, incidentally.



*Yes, I know that doesn't mean it will

There would be no supporting fire to take place. Units can only support fire if they're in range of a directly engaged enemy unit. Since there are no directly engaged units at all there would be no supporting fire.

That's academic anyway, as the assault wouldn't take place at all.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Well technically it happens but there's no legal target for supporting fire so support fire is fired.

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www.tneva.net

Making it virtually impossible to assault is not balancing.

In real life assaulting is hard and generally requires more strenght than defending.

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Neal

Rug:  Okay.  I understand what you're saying.

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Neal

The italicized section is actually in the rules, and would be hard to argue that there isn't a difference between the rules of the entire section, and the rules of a 'charge move'.

Just FAQ it, and be done with it, IMO.

Morgan Vening

There are several parts to assaults that can be perceived as unfair.
- The direction of counter-charges, which can 'pin' defending units
- The way that supports do not suffer damage.
- The way that the assault is limited, which tends to favour the attacker (naturally).

Spit-balling a little, I did wonder whether it was worth allowing the defender to increase the area of assault, and also perhaps allowing each participant to choose to allocate some hits to enemy supports (the assault resolution is still determined by the original attacking and defending formations).

The modifications might look like this:-
1) the attacker activates and charges under the current rules

2) the defender countercharges under the current rules

3) the defender may choose to increase the area of the assault by adding some or all units that are outside the the assault range of the attacker but within 15 cm of any other enemy unit. This makes these units eligible targets for enemy support fire under the usual rules

4) The attacker and defender may elect to split their fire, allocating up to half of their dice to enemy supports as follows:-
a) First the defending formation sets aside up to half of it's dice for shooting at enemy supports, then the attacker sets aside up to half of its dice

5) Attacker and defender exchange fire under the current rules, but potentially with fewer dice

6) If the assault continues, the attacker and defender exchange fire with the supports. Any hits on Supporting formations are handled under the normal shooting rules. Note to allocate dice to any target, one or more assaulting units need to be in range (15cm) and LoS as usual.

7) Assault resolution is performed as usual, considering the factors and hits relevant to the attacking and defending formations as usual.


The point of this is to allow the defender a little more control over the assault (or requires the attacker to be a little more cautious). More importantly, it may make the assault mechanism more acceptable. In practice, I have a suspicion that the defender may not take advantage of these options in the end, though being able to damage supports as you are overrun may have its appeal .

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Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

I think this step, essentially the "dragging in" of nearby enemy support formations might be better represented by getting enemy units within the counter-charging units' Zones of Control; in which case you could firefight them if you're not in base or close combat them if they are.  

If you make it 15cm, it makes it far more risky to setup support fire.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Yes the intention is to drag enemy units in 15cm into the fight. But note these are specifically those units that are not currently fighting. Effectively this allows the defender to fight these other units at the risk of suffering additional hits (detrimentally affecting their assault resolution). We would need to make it clear that the defender cannot use these additional dice to bolster the assault against the attacker, they would have to be used against the relevant enemy supports. For example

AAA                                    
AAA <---10cm---> D D D D D D D <5cm> SS
AAA                                    

Here, the 'token' support used to pin the defenders could be engaged by the bulk of the defenders (who cannot get into range of the attackers), with a resonable chance of killing them off. However, if the supports were a significant size, the defenders might decide to decline this. Indeed, if they fell the assault is a lost cause, they may just decide to go out in a blaze of glory by taking as many enemy with them as they can.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

6) If the assault continues, the attacker and defender exchange fire with the supports. Any hits on Supporting formations are handled under the normal shooting rules. Note to allocate dice to any target, one or more assaulting units need to be in range (15cm) and LoS as usual.

Good spot Clauswitz. I was trying to make it clear that these hits on the supports did not contribute to the assault resolution.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

I think you'd also want to make very clear that they are not making a shooting attack against the supporting enemy but a single FF attack (well unless they have multiple FF attacks).  E.g. a Leman Russ would make its sibgle 4+ FF attack not unload its Battlecannon, Las Cannon and Heavy Bolters!

I understand that you haven't said that, but it should be very clear.