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Suppression of supporting fire?

 Post subject: Suppression of supporting fire?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:42 am 
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Quote: (Ginger @ 08 Jun. 2009, 18:30 )

To the original question, you get 5x Big gunz in the assault; as Zombocom says units are not suppressed in an assault, but the BMs do count in the assault resolution.

'Supporting' formations may not actually be able to kill enemy units for a number of reasons (being Broken, having no LoS, having no FF capability, no longer having enemy in range etc) but this does not matter - the 'supporting' formation gets a BM formation if it is on the losing side and was in position to support at the start of the assault.

Ok, You need to be in position to provide supporting fire to pick up the bm, though you don't need to have capability to do so (you're broken or marched or have no FF)

Are you in position if you don't have LoS?

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 Post subject: Suppression of supporting fire?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:52 am 
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The support fire rules from the errata

Both sides may call upon support
unless the defender has been wiped
out or the attack stalled as described
above. Calling on support allows units
from other formations to attack with
their firefight value if they are within
15cm and have a line of fire to an
enemy unit directly involved in the
assault. In this case ‘directly involved’
means belonging to the attacking or
defending formation(s) and in a
position to attack. This rule represents
units from both sides that are not
directly involved in the assault lending
supporting fire when they see their
friends coming under attack. Units
from formations that are either Broken
or Marched this turn cannot lend
support.


So line of fire is required, which IIRC requires a Line of sight.

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 Post subject: Suppression of supporting fire?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:59 pm 
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Yep.  LoS to a targetable unit is required.  Just to highlight the bit from Meph's quote:
Calling on support allows units
from other formations to attack with
their firefight value if they are within
15cm and have a line of fire to an
enemy unit directly involved
in the
assault
.

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 Post subject: Suppression of supporting fire?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Oh, and I am correct in saying taht the models targeted by the support fire have to have been directly involved in the assault? i.e. rolled to either CC or FF? So I can't support fire into a formation if I've clipped it from the other side?


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 Post subject: Suppression of supporting fire?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:07 pm 
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Yes you are.

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 Post subject: Suppression of supporting fire?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:34 pm 
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Absolutely correct.

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 Post subject: Suppression of supporting fire?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:09 pm 
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Umm, I think these answers may be at variance with earlier ones. The relevant quote is 1.12.8
Finally, any formations belonging to the losing side that were in a position to have lent support (ie, they were within 15cms of an enemy unit in the assault) receive one Blast marker each, even if they did not actually lend support. These Blast markers represent the detrimental effect on morale of seeing friends defeated in an assault.
IIRC past answers did not require LoS as well as being within 15cm, even though the paragraph goes on to mention 'seeing' the assault going against their side. I assumed that the 'supporters' would be aware of the nearby situation through technological means as well as vision.

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 Post subject: Suppression of supporting fire?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:15 pm 
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Section 1.12.6 is what I posted above and that defines "in a position to support" as

Calling on support allows units
from other formations to attack with
their firefight value if they are within
15cm and have a line of fire to an
enemy unit directly involved in the
assault


So no variance there. You could still get a BM and not fire supporting fire, even though you were in a position to support, if the supporting formation is no longer in range of units directly involved in the assault.

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 Post subject: Suppression of supporting fire?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:29 pm 
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I may well be wrong here, but the RAW would seem to have two definitions; 1.12.6 defining how support fire works, while 1.12.8 defines when a BM for losing is added. After all, 1.12.8 does qualify the statement about being in position to have lent support, and does not mention LoS there. Note this also covers other situations of blocked LoS eg by a WE, and the probable situation where at least some of the broken formation ran towards the friends that were supposedly supporting them, coming into view in reality.

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