The loss of a flying transport also means the loss of a large body of troops; in a friendly game this can sometimes be a 'game ruiner' situation (psychologically and practically). For this reason our group proposed the following house rule for friendlies:
Destroyed flying transports crash to the ground at the point they were destroyed. Troops on board follow the normal 'destroyed transport' rules, but take 2 hits instead of 1.

Consulting the fabled oracles of these board ( ), will this rule change severly unbalance the game?

Personally I would think it removes some fun from the game -the tension of seeing if that 6 comes up for the critical.

I cna't see that its that different to a big assault roll-off in terms of luck or importance

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If I have understood you correctly, you are proposing that the Transport crashes, and all troops throw 2x D6 each, needing to survive on both dice. Weeeeell, this will heavily favour Marines, while more lightly armoured troops will usually die (as currently). Running the maths a second

Termies (4+RA) have a 0.56 chance of survival
Marines (4+)     have a 0.25 chance of survival
Rangers (5+)     have a 0.11 chance of survival
Others   (6+)     have a 0.03 chance of survival

Basically this means that even if you do shoot the THawk down, two marines would possibly survive (Termies or others). Because this would put at least 4x BMs on the formation, it would break causing the assault to fail, so the surviving marines would be broken. The chances of anything else other than the 4+ armoured Eldar Aspects surviving are minimal.

While I have sympathies with the approach, it is probably a bit fiddly for little additional benefit other than to improve the Marine air assault, which is widely accepted to be one of the strongest strategies in the game. In addition, CAP and Interception were given +1 specifically to diminish the air game, and this is effectively putting a bit of power back into the air game by reducing the risk, albeit only a little.

The point is that if you do face strong AA (which is fairly normal in the UK scene), you either have to neutralise it before activating the assault, pre-empt it (getting in before CAP is in place), or deploy your troops by other means - garrisons for example.

So, although it is a nice idea, I don't think it will receive much support.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

If your using it as a "house rule" it doesn't matter if any one else thinks it's unbalancing,give it a try for a few dozen games and then decide.You should then let us know in a month or 2 how it went   .

I wouldn't want it to be brought in as a change though,it would take away some of the risk element of an air assault.

Sounds like a fun House Rule.

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Well, as stated, it is a house rule for our group and not something I expect to get accepted - I was merely wondering if it would be hugely unbalancing. Thanks for running the maths  

Thunderhawks are starting to get shot down in our game and someone has just collected an Eldar army with Vampires that are far more brittle than Thunderhawks.

If the situation continues then no-one will take Air transports in our group, meaning there would be no need to take the AA - leading to an 'arms race' stalemate. As we play the same people/armies in our group we need something to break the dead lock.

Looking at the maths, perhapse we will use the standard transport 1 hit per unit, but the formation automatically breaks...


Personally I would think it removes some fun from the game -the tension of seeing if that 6 comes up for the critical.

Given that air assault is currently one of the most powerful tactics in the game, I really don't think it needs a boost.

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As I tried to point out air Transports are always going to be vulnerable, especially to reasonable amounts of AA. The Eldar Vampire is especially vulnerable, while the Ork Landa is very robust (being a DC3). IMHO the Landing Craft is the best of the lot - but this is where the tense 'critical' comes in as this usually contains at least a third of the army.

Hence you need to find ways of countering the AA threat - ground-assaults by 'suicide' ThunderBolts, teleporting Terminators to do a 1st activation strike followed by the landing etc. You do have the option of landing troops in a 'shooting' ground assault some distance from the enemy (and outside the enemy AA umbrella). Alternatively, you can planetfall the transports. This has several distinct advantages

• It completely bypasses all AA!
  
• It instantly deploys a large part of the army in mutual support,
  
• It actually increases the number of activations (the transports act as local artillery and shoot)
  
• It sets up numerous tactical possibilities (eg crossfire)

But there are a number of drawbacks as well :-

• Well positioned scouts can screen major formations from assaults, buying time for counter-attacks
• The actual position of the planetfalling formations needs good 'prediction' and also gets randomised (this is not nearly as bad as it appears, but is a separate discussion)

However, these permutations are all part of the appeal of Epic. It requires a bit more thought than the average game (and apparently a lot more than 40K ) so it is up to you to find the counter-strategies that will defeat the enemy AA and keep your transports intact.

Equally you could try other 'house' rules. For example, allow players to provide "escorts" to the transports, either by 'CAPping' enemy fighters on CAP, or even by using the 'commander rule' to fly the transport and escort fighters in simultaneously. Alternatively, you could ignore the +1 for fighters that was brought in to reduce air-power.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

We get all that, and in a 'normal' game situation it all works. However, 'knowing' they will be facing Marines or Eldar - our Tyranid player has 4 gargoyles in every formation, as well as a Harridan with Gargoyles. Our imperial guard player puts a Hydra in every formation and then can have Thunderbolts on top of that. This makes the 'AA umberella' their entire army! Its this knoweldge of what you will face that makes the difference when playing in friendly games that emphasises certain units over others, imo. The only reliable counter-strategy is to not take air transports or, as you pointed out, planetfall them.
I would like to point out that my Marine army has 1 T.Hawk and the Eldar army has 1 Vampire (perhapse he has 2, dont know) - so it is not as if Air Transports are dominating the game - they just know they are an easy target to wipe out several hundred points, (and I dont blame them).

Normally,the unknown enemy list will force a player to pick a more all-round list to face it.

If your group is limited to choices of armies,ie each player knows which armies there opponents have available to play.Then picking forces to counter each other will be inevitable.

All I can advise is to get more armies you can play and constantly bring different styles of lists. This is so any regular opponent has to pick a list that can try to counter more than 1 opposing list style.

You could try playing without any form of aircraft for a while and just use teleporters instead of air assaults,after a few games you should see opponents drop the amount of AA in their lists if they are not being fully utilised.

As dptdexys says, you should definitely try without aircraft for a few games to keep your opponent guessing. Drawing up lists 'knowing' what the opponent is fielding is always problematic, but that said, air transports are always a risk, and it is still up to you to find ways of neutralizing the threat. Here goes - -

With only a single vampire or THawk, you are already limited to attacking an extreme flank (or later the rear) of an army where the AA umbrella is weaker. Essentially you will need to concentrate your efforts on the point to be attacked.

One of the first rules to remember is to put BMs on the enemy to suppress enemy AA (check up on AA suppression which is a little tricky). Artillery is good at reducing AA capability, quite apart from being especially usefull against 'horde' armies like the IG and 'Nids but you obviously have to wait until they have moved into range. Teleporting Termies/Swooping Hawks on a flank to shoot / support (or even assault) is another way of weakening or neutralising the AA umbrella, along with pre-emptive air-strikes or 'fly-by' long-range shooting attacks etc.

Keeping the aircraft off-table for a second turn or even a third turn strike is equally effective, but takes patience and nerves to prepare the ground in turn #1. (The Eldar Avatar and the Marine Supreme Commander are essential here to avoid 'mis-communication').
(Personally, I have always disliked the 'permanent' CAP in the 2008 updates, which makes turn #2 assaults more problematic - try dropping that rule.)

Equally you could try starting with the transports empty to pick up their troops on turn #1 for a turn #2 assault. (If it survives, you will probabply have also got BMs on the enemy A/c, which in turn are then less likely to fly on turn #2). And I do hope the Eldar player has some Night wings to intercept (NOT CAP) enemy fighters - - -

Finally the air strategy really depends on the strength of the "umbrella" at the point of the assault taking place. The Vampire can probably ignore up to 3x gargoyles and possibly a Hydra, as the odds of getting shot down are slim. However, unless the Eldar can attack within their own ground AA umbrella (one or even two formations of Falcons with Firestorms) there is something like a 55% chance that the Vampire will be toast to Tbolts on CAP.

The Marines THawk is much tougher as statistically it can survive up to 7 hits - the equivalent of TBolts on CAP and at least 4 Hydra (that is unless I am throwing the dice ) and again, having a Hunter in range will help disuade the TBolts.

Hope all that helps

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

Yeah, very helpful all of you - thanks.
Mixing up the lists is probably a good idea and, since the discussion concerning Marine armour (and my exposure to the Scions list - thanks Hena) is something that I will be trying. Either that, or I stick to playing my Nurgle army