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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
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Sorry.  I probably could have chosen better vocabulary.
I meant critical in the sense of "looking for flaws" not critical in the sense of "RED ALERT!!!"
Ok, no prob. For a minute, I was thinking, "Wuh-wait a minute, that's what the peer review
was for.
As to why I think it needs a review, the list as it currently exists
seems to diverge from the stated intent of a mech infantry focus
Perhaps, this is where some of the confusion is coming from. I never made a comment about
a mechanized "infantry" focus.
What I said was:
Fair enough. Perhaps this hasn't been formally stated
enough, but I and CS do not see the Tau as a foot slogger
army. It is our intention to deliver something that is close
cousins to say, an American Armored Cavalry regiment.
Mechanization is expected to be a core feature of the list.
So the emphasis is on mechanized operations, either tank heavy or mech infantry
heavy. The "assets" (i.e. formations) are allocated based on the type of mission
being undertaken. Heavier terrain, nearby units include infantry, then go with
an infantry heavy mix. Wide open spaces or, the mission calls for deep penetration
into the enemy, take an armor heavy mix.
The whole operational idea revolves around how you put your assets together. What
it does not force on the commander is a static composition of forces so that no matter
what your orders are, you still show up with 6 infantry companies and three tank.
That is the concept that we are attempting to build into the list...or should I say,
the capabilities we are trying to build into the list.
By "mechanized infantry" I'm referring to infantry accompanied by transport.  The way
I'm looking at it, mechanized Fire Warriors can be viable in the army configuration,
but only if they are the primary focus of the army.  With anything except primary mech
infantry, it isn't good.  That means the choice is heavy mech with lots of FW/Devilfish
or very little.
Maybe it's just me, but all-or-nothing mech infantry doesn't make mechanized infantry
a "core feature" of the army.  It's a possibility but not a terribly flexible one, which
seems to put it further outside of the core concept.
also you commented
Under a 5.0 list, I only see one army configuration to make mechanized FW work, while
there are lots of ways to make footsloggers work.
So with the previous statements being made, perhaps they will shed a little more light
on your questions. The idea is not to "feature" any one kind of unit (e.g. mech infantry),
but to provide capabilities that the individual can tailor to a set of objectives.
That is one of the inherent advantages of an ACR. From an opponent's perspective, you
can't necessarily determine what its objectives are based on the fact that it is present, like
you might if you ran into a foot infantry regiment. There's only so much you can do with
foot infantry. Instead, you as the opponent, have to learn what its composition and
capabilities are in order to try and discern its intent.
How do you use mechanized infantry in your army lists, Honda?  Do you integrate
mechanized fire warriors into anything except a majority mech-FW list?  If so, how?
What do you use them for?  What combos work with mech FW and how do you set them up?
Well, I'm not sure how I play is necessarily going to provide the insight that you are looking
for, as I am not what I would call a tournament player. I play more for fun, though I do play
very hard, but more within the character of the Tau. So I don't do some things like...I never
defend my blitz because the Tau don't defend terrain features, it's not in their psyche. They
seek to maneuver for an advantage and then degrade the opponent's operations through fire
discipline. Very ACR-ish to me.
Below is a typical list that I would play that has mech infantry in it. It comes from an
earlier list, when Stingrays were stronger, but for the most part, it should be reasonably
capable of being fielded in the v5.0 list.
2 x Fire Warrior Cadre, w/Devilfish + IC-HH upgrade
2 x Piranha Contingent, + Piranha upgrade, + Tetra Upgrade
1 x Stingray Contingent + Stingray upgrade
1 x Armored Cadre (IC-HH) + IC-HH upgrade (BTS)
1 x Armored Cadre (RG-HH)
These are comments that I added in the battle report against Orks:
I took some chances with this list. I continue to develop how the Piranha Recon
units work in conjunction with heavier armored assets. I decided to not take a
Supreme Commander, War engines, or Networked Drones for the AHHC and use those
points to put more firepower on the table. Time would tell as to whether or not
that was a wise choice. I was also cognizant of the fact that I didn’t need the
toughest tanks around, just lots of shots, hence my decision to take mostly Ion
Cannon Hammerheads so that I could switch back and forth against infantry and
armor as needed.
Since I new that I'd be facing a lot of big Ork formations and that my opponents
plan would be to hem me in and push me off the board, I opted to use the FWs as
my fulcrum and push hard on the one flank, while holding off at arms reach on the
other side and attempt my breakout. I almost made it, but it was quite a brutal
affair as I remember.
So, the Armored cadres seek targets of opportunity, the FWs follow up in support. The
Recon formation protects the flank and rear.
I don't know if that is what you are looking for.
As far as batreps, I went back to 2006 and found just one report where the Tau army
had more than one FW formation in Devilfish
Well, I'm not going to try to explain why others chose the forces they did. I went back
and looked at my reports and they were mostly from the 2005-2006 period, or at least what
I would call the most active period. I do know that I was playing with more than one, but
I'm only one person. Given that Tau armies are not easy to come by, there could be other
mitigating reasons, such as cost to field.
That being said, is it an indication of the lack of viability of FWs in the list? It is
certainly an indication, but that shouldn't surprise us, people have been saying that
for awhile.
At the end of the day, we're just going to have to test this version. It all comes down
to testing and then analyzing, getting feedback on the results.
_________________
Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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