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[Hammerheads] Why would you take an Ion Cannon?

 Post subject: [Hammerheads] Why would you take an Ion Cannon?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:12 pm 
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It doesn't just seem to be inferior, it is inferior.

Inferior in what aspect? Killing tanks? Granted - albeit only slightly. Killing Infantry? Nope. Does it do the middle ground well? Yep! I say potato, you say potato. No one really has had a problem with this tank and it's points for a good 2-3 versions of this list. All of a sudden we need to change it? Please....

Why is a point decrease a problem?
It's really not that necessary IMO. It's just more micromanagement. Not everything in a list has to be tweaked to the N-th degree ... but if you feel the need to change the points, go ahead. I'll reserve a little chuckle if/when people start to complain about it being cheaper in the distant future - ala every other change that seems to make broad circles in this list design  :;):  :vD

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 Post subject: [Hammerheads] Why would you take an Ion Cannon?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:46 pm 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 10 Mar. 2009, 11:12 )

It doesn't just seem to be inferior, it is inferior.

Inferior in what aspect?

Shorter range... it's *distinctly* inferior there.

The Railcannon can fire into the opponent's deployment zone on an advance in Turn 1, while the Ion Cannon cannot; that's an incredibly big difference.  If an Ionhead doubles to fire at that range, its AP fire is just as "good" as the Railcannon and its AT fire is markedly worse.

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 Post subject: [Hammerheads] Why would you take an Ion Cannon?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Errm ever thought it's not meant to do exactly what the Railgun does and has a completely different tasking? Close-in ranged infantry/tank killing anyone??

Sorry I'm not sold on adjusting this thing. But like I said, do what you feel is necessary.


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 Post subject: [Hammerheads] Why would you take an Ion Cannon?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:07 pm 
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Why not make them really different? Something along these lines:

Railgun 75cm AT3+
Ion Cannon 45 cm AT4+/AP4+


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 Post subject: [Hammerheads] Why would you take an Ion Cannon?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:09 pm 
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Quote: (asaura @ 10 Mar. 2009, 12:07 )

Why not make them really different? Something along these lines:

Railgun 75cm AT3+

Because the Railgun is actually quite adept at killing massed infantry as well... in 40k (Yes, I know I'm swearing on the boards) they can fire a *large* barrage template attack against massed targets.

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 Post subject: [Hammerheads] Why would you take an Ion Cannon?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:40 pm 
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[cynical on]
I know, lets turn it into an Eldar Cobra, with a Leman Russ battlecannon - or better still, a Volcano cannon - as its secondary armament :p [/cynical]

Guys, isn't this kind of discussion at the heart of the debates that have plagued the Tau development over the years. First statement is that there are two variant models, so there must be two set of stats. Next statement is a question of whether these can be balanced or not and thus whether they can get the same cost. Then you get debates on the strengths and weaknesses of each (which quite frankly depends on too many 'battlefield factors' as Asuara suggests), and quotes from various 'fluffy' sources to back up one position or the other, and we go round again.

Perhaps we could approach this slightly differently by pricing for the "best" stats (which most seem to think is the Railgun variant) and allow a "free swap" for the other one. Permitting 'mixed' formations would also allow the stats for each variant to be made slightly more AT or AP specific while letting the player determine how he wants the formation to perform.

Final thought on costs, what do you guys think of the notion of having a cadre of 5x HHeads for 325, and allowing upgrades of one HH @75 points?

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 Post subject: [Hammerheads] Why would you take an Ion Cannon?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 10 Mar. 2009, 12:03 )

Errm ever thought it's not meant to do exactly what the Railgun does and has a completely different tasking? Close-in ranged infantry/tank killing anyone??

The railgun is better at close-in tank killing. It is also of course better at long ranged tank killing.

They are about equal at long ranged infantry killing.

The ion cannon is only superior at close in infantry killing, and then only slightly.

Out of 4 possibilities the rail is better at 2, and the Ion at 1.




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 Post subject: [Hammerheads] Why would you take an Ion Cannon?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:32 pm 
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Let me save you some electrons. We're not going to change the HH entries for this round of testing.

As pointed out earlier, they have been in the current form for quite awhile. I'm not saying that they are perfect, but it has not caused the list to break.

So my recommendation is that you let this issue go for now and if it gets brought up again after this round of testing, then we'll look at it.

The "list" is frozen as far as design changes go.

Cheers,

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 Post subject: [Hammerheads] Why would you take an Ion Cannon?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:02 pm 
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Quote: (Honda @ 10 Mar. 2009, 13:32 )

Let me save you some electrons. We're not going to change the HH entries for this round of testing.

Is the list being released today?  I was hoping to get in a playtest this evening, but I'll have to wind up doing something else if the new list isn't posted soon.

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