If that had been said at the beginning I think this thread would still be on page 1.

Thanks, Steve54.  I'm fine with that, as long as it extends to the other list changes as well.  If EpikUK can do a simple thing like posting pdfs when they are ready, I think this whole argument will blow over quickly.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I doubt it - for reasonable people like yourself Yes but not for some people in this thread.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Well you'll be missing out on a hell of a lot of fun so you might be cutting off your nose to spite your face!

I rather think you've missed the point yourself. The GW toruny lists are SUGGESTED lists for tournaments. They are not THE lists to use. GW has no power to dictate - no one does. GW won't/can;t sue you if you don't use them.

Like I said, if enough people feel like you, and you really won't come to tournament because you feel so strongly about this, then Matt may have to reconsider.

Remember Epic UK's mission is (quoted from matts post) "...is an independent organisation totally committed to the development of EPIC Armageddon tournaments within the UK."

If what EUK is doing is preventing new people from coming to the tournaments, than that's kind of counter to what EUK wants to achieve.

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[url=http://tinyurl.com/bott2015][img]http://i62.tinypic.com/205fcow.jpg[/img][/url]

Not when it comes to sports (or Epic, apparently).  While I agree that men are the pinnacle of God's achievements we are emotionally tied to competition and all things associated with it.  There is no stopping it.  This is why football stadiums are filled with screaming grown men who beat each other when their team loses.  

Just sharing the development is not much to ask for, I don't think.  We're all interested making the game better and it will be better for all parties with open dialogue.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Yes I suppose your'e right about that.
Also, incidentally, for whatever reason Men seem to dominate when it comes to religious affairs - Inquisitors and persecutors etc...

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[url=http://tinyurl.com/bott2015][img]http://i62.tinypic.com/205fcow.jpg[/img][/url]

I meant more that all lists are for the tournament scenario, and need to be developed and balanced to that end.

My problem with coming to tournaments now is that I've been slowly convincing my gaming group that focussed list development and balancing is now happening; that progress is being made. Now that Epic:UK announces it's  own lists, my group will see that the whole thing is fragmenting again, and decide to stick with 40K again.
My options appear to be avoid the tournament circuit, which I don't want to do; or embrace the Epic:UK lists wholeheartedly and turn my back on the development that's ongoing here at TacComms. Now, I can honestly state, I've not been involved in that development, but have definitely benefited from it - and I'm not prepared to ignore these TacComms guys; they are dedicated, hard-working Epic fans and I respect them all, even when I don't agree with them.

What I want is to see one set of lists that all Epic players are developing; that end up balanced for the tournament scenario; and that result in the growth of Epic gaming. I honestly feel that the NetERC were working toward that goal, and that EpicUK could have a serious contribution to make to this process - but developing separate lists is not the way to do it!
Regards,
Reaver

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Come to the first tournament this year. Full Scale Assault at the end of feb. In this no new stuff is being used - just the GW stuff and possibly one or two other tiny points listed in the tournament pdf. Stay for the day after which is a friendly gaming day. Some of the new lists will be trialed. Even if you only come to the tournament day you can voice your opinions there and discuss with Matt face to face. As a potential serious tourny player, your thoughts and fears will be taken equally seriously.

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[url=http://tinyurl.com/bott2015][img]http://i62.tinypic.com/205fcow.jpg[/img][/url]

And what's wrong with not allowing Dark Eldar? Either way its a judgement call for a tournament organiser.

Okay where is the real Rug and what have you done with him.

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EPIC UK Chairman
www.epic-uk.co.uk

EPIC UK - Improving and Enhancing Epic gaming in the UK

chairman@epic-uk.co.uk

For the record, I personally don't mind if the DE aren't allowed.  It is the organizer's call.  I disallowed AMTL in one tournament and allowed it in another.  I was simply making a case that IF it were modified because of some double-secret-probation list development I'd be peeved not to be included. And I can only assume the same thing goes for the other list developers and their respective lists.

I think Hena was just bringing up the Dark Eldar because somebody else brought up the Dark Eldar in a previous thread.  The Dark Eldar simply is the first fan-made NetERC approved list so by not including it in the tournament line-up and in context with everything else stated, it is a slap to the NetERC.

To break it down:

NetERC says, "Dark Eldar are balanced for tournament play.  Let it be written."
EpicUK say, "Nah - I'm not including that list until we see fit."

NetERC's perception: EpicUK doesn't trust the judgment of the NetERC's decision.  Had EpicUK posted that they weren't including the DE in a vacuum, it wouldn't be offensive I don't think.  But because this comment comes on the coattails of other comments in the thread of how "nothing gets accomplished", "discussing in circles", "no progress", you've pretty much insulted them with this decision too.  It has nothing to do with the list but the decision behind the list and the lack of discussion.

Then you pile a bunch of SM lists into your 'acceptable' category that nobody has seen or played, tell them that they can't see it, and tell them not to worry about it (move along, there's nothing to see here) and NOW you've got the icing on the cake.

Did I explain that well enough, Hena?

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

If that's your market then you have to cater to it, but that doesn't make it a rational concern.  Pollution from 'non UK tournament EPIC players' is unavoidable.  There are enough UK tourney players on international venues that tactics, strategies and any attendant loopholes or abuses discovered by non-UK, non-tourney players will make it into UK events.

The other problem is, as mentioned earlier, I had no idea who and where NETRC are ... so how could I contact you.

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Neal

This discussion is not going anywhere.

No disrespect but I have said that the EPIC UK lists are NOT behind closed doors; most EPIC tournament players within the UK would of play tested them. We have champions in London, Midlands, Leeds, Exeter and Milton Keynes. I think NETERC arn't listening as well as they could.

They are not going on the forum because of the example shown in this post; 118 posts, 1218 views and we are going around in circles.

Then you pile a bunch of SM lists into your 'acceptable' category that nobody has seen or played.

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EPIC UK Chairman
www.epic-uk.co.uk

EPIC UK - Improving and Enhancing Epic gaming in the UK

chairman@epic-uk.co.uk