Has just reducing the Obliterator AA to 6+ not been considered? Personally I like obliterator AA - I like that the Black Legion list has a different way of handling flak.

_________________
They are free, yes, but not entirely free; for they have a master, and that master is Law.

No it wasn't. There were masses used during the Heresy. It could transport 5 men as well I think. Had a box launcher on top firing Krak missiles.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

No it wasn't. There were masses used during the Heresy. It could transport 5 men as well I think. Had a box launcher on top firing Krak missiles.

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

Reference?

You're not getting a canon unit mixed up with something BoLS wrote are you?

_________________
Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Not sure about the transport 5 men, but the original metal whirlwind was available with Space Marine all those years ago and WD did publish a conversion template for 40k rhinos to turn them into whirlwinds, still got one at home its painted in World Eater colours.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Heh.  

IG Guardsmen:  "Die, die, die!"
Obliterator:  "Hey man, we should hang out more often."
IG Guardsmen:  Die, Die, DIE!"
Obliterator:  "Seriously, man, I've got some hotty deamonettes lined up for next weekend.  You free?"
IG Guardsmen:  *sigh*

_________________
Neal

Sadly my experience is the exact opposite :-( Bloody Russes never die when I'm shooting at them.

_________________
Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Just all the 40k stuff from the 80's and 90's. It was always a heresy unit. It was the main IFV for marines in the original Space marine (1st edition). Carrying a multi launcher incidentially. I think later on in Rogue trader they axed the infantry carrying capacity but I have all the Epic Datafax for them, 40k articles etc etc. You could make them fairly well in 40k with the original Rhino and a large monster base as they had the little 'ball's' you punched out for the monster pegs, that when the you cut the base in half looked like 12 missile heads. I made a far better one with two missile canisters that were originally kinder eggs

Armourcast made a resin conversion kit.

I can scan the datafax if anyone is intregied what stats stuff had way back when!

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Sadly my experience is the exact opposite :-( Bloody Russes never die when I'm shooting at them.

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

If it's rhino based I'd give it Armour 5.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

I agree, armour 5+ unless it has some specific special background reason for being particularly flimsy. I've some stats I've put together, but feel free to toss ideas around until I can get around to uploading it (I'm making a single document with new stats for all of the units that need a reworking - Defiler, Desecrator, Stalker, Obliterator and the aircraft).

I was thinking armor 6 for the seem reason Chimera based tanks with good guns have it, they're full of highly explosive ammunition. ^^

But with Armor 5 its not clearly worse than the hydra so its prolly more worth the points.

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

From Apocalyspse Reload:

-Cult of destruction.
3+ squads of 3 Obliterators. They can combine their fire into incredibly potent weapons (one is Strength D, and increases in range the more Obliterators there are, one uses the Hellstorm template and improves in AP the more Obliterators there are, and one uses the 10" template and increases in strength the more Obliterators there are), but you have to roll a 4+ to make them do anything other than shoot in the shooting phase (such as run, or simply not shoot).

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

I don't know what Strength D or a Hellstorm template are, but they sounds somethingish  

Something like a Note similar to the IG: 2 Obliterator units may forgo their shooting attacks to make a single combined attack at MW3+ TK(1d3) OR BP2, MW.

Is that the idea?

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow