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Chaos Aircraft
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:17 pm 
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If an aircraftmounted  weapon has an AP value only  then the AA value is the same but at +1 worse. See the Twin Heavy Bolters on the Thunderhawk.
I laid out this system elswhere on the forum some time ago :)




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:51 pm 
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Ork Heavy shooters :) Just accept its arbitary!

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Ginger
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:25 pm 
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Guys

Rather than "accepting its aritrary", can we try to come to some form of principle that gets applied to all airborne weapons?

In principle, I do not think any airborne weapon should have a range more than 30 cms, with the possible exception of the THawk battlecannon, which should be 45cms, or just possibly 60cms!

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Ginger
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:12 pm 
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While I understand the views, IHMO we should be trying to establish the underlying principles precisely to remove the "arbitrary" nature of the airborne weapon stats - so we remove the anomalies that have plagued the game development.

So, in the long-term I would hope that all air stats are reduced, and that would include reducing the Battlecannon on the THawk. That said, I would also see a strong argument for considering giving "landed" aircraft better stats. For example, adding 15 cms range and +1 to all weapons when on the ground.

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Irondeath
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:54 pm 
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Since we are at the "wild ideas" stage for the Hell Blade again, I?d once more toss a few into the ring:


Single Weapon System:

Quad Autocannon 30cm 1x AP3+ AT5+ AA4+


15cm Range:

Hellblade Autocannons: 2x 15cm AP4+ AT5+ AA5+


Mixed "OR" Range:

Hellblade Autocannons:
2x 15cm AP4+ AT6+ AA5+ OR 2x 30cm AP5+ AT6+ AA6+

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Irondeath
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:00 pm 
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(Ginger @ May 27 2008,15:12)
QUOTE
While I understand the views, IHMO we should be trying to establish the underlying principles precisely to remove the "arbitrary" nature of the airborne weapon stats - so we remove the anomalies that have plagued the game development.


No, arbitrary is good in this case as the benchmark would be 40k, which is completely hopeless as a guide to air combat and air ground interaction.

We should really focus on workable stats, of course keeping it in touch with the background but with a clear priority on playability versus direct conversion of ranges/stats from 40k.


(Ginger @ May 27 2008,15:12)
QUOTE

So, in the long-term I would hope that all air stats are reduced, and that would include reducing the Battlecannon on the THawk. That said, I would also see a strong argument for considering giving "landed" aircraft better stats. For example, adding 15 cms range and +1 to all weapons when on the ground.



That sounds reasonable and could lead to mobile strongpoints for air-inserting SM, which would be quite cool.

:;):

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:40 pm 
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Well, I'd like to give it 15cm range on its guns - seems about right for a cheap fighter.

One possibility is this:
2x Reaper autocannon 15cm AP4+/AT6+/AA5+

I agree about the lascannon. Let's just make it 30cm flat out.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:08 pm 
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Those stats give it one hell of a punch lord I (twice that of an ork fighter).

How about option one (my favourite)
Twin reapers 30cm AP3+/AT5+/AA5+
3 for 125
Similar AP punch to a thunderbolt, worse AT, more planes, better intercept at 30cm, worse at 15cm.

Having something other than twin reapers means
2xAP4+/AT6+/AT6+
That means better AP, slightly worse AT due to cover mods and better AA (two shots at 5+ as opposed to 1 at 4+)
175 for 3 probably, but feeling a lot tougher than they should? (I see them as ultra light fighters)

Then of course the 15cm one.
Twin reapers 15cm AP3+/AT5+/AA5+ 360 degree arc (to account for high manoeuvrability and precedent is there with orks)
3 for 75 would be interesting but simply lead to a mass of air activations? 3 for 100 is perhaps to expensive.
The 2x reapers here could be interesting, but hard to pin down to 100 or 125 for 3.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:53 pm 
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re Ork Heavy Shooters:
It is an Ork weapon! :D

re Hell Blade:
Another option: Throw wysiwyg out of ther window as it happened to the Thunderbolt and Marauder. And then ask yourselfe:
What is the Hell Blade?
A PURE Interceptor!
So scrap the AP and AT values.
Give the Hell Blade Combi Bolters with 15cm AA5+ perhabs with a 360? firing arc as Ork Fightabommers (with the same reasoning why Orks have this).
If you want to stick with Fixed Forward Arc give them a 5+ armour save to represent their exeptional manouverability.

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Kleomenes
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:25 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ May 27 2008,23:08)
QUOTE
How about option one (my favourite)
Twin reapers 30cm AP3+/AT5+/AA5+
3 for 125
Similar AP punch to a thunderbolt, worse AT, more planes, better intercept at 30cm, worse at 15cm.

This would be my favourite too.

I like the swarm approach this would allow, and its actually reasonably nasty given it doesnt have to approach close to fire, thus must actually be dogfought (is that a word?)

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Kleomenes
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:28 pm 
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Re the Hell Talon - 45cm is bad on the lascannons, I would concur with the 30cm reduction. When playtesting the fighters I couldnt decide between 175, 200, or 225 for them with the 45cm lascannon. I think 175 would be right with a 30 cm lascannon - and make it much easier to field them in the BL list.

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