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The Quake Cannon
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:19 am 
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I just remembered that the Quake Cannon gets two massive (~15" across) templates in 40k (Unless my brain has a short-circuit).

EDIT :

I checked the thread and it does have 2 templates in 40k.

So:

120cm
Slow Firing
4BP
Macro-Weapon
Ignores Cover

75pts



Thoughts?

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Ginger
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:55 am 
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Please do not make the range 120cms!!  90 is more than adequate for a LOS shot.

I would still recommend avoiding slow firing, but to quote L4, DWWFY

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:03 pm 
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I would drop either MW or IC, it doesn't need both.

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zombocom
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:13 pm 
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Never have both macro and ignore cover, even if slow firing.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:12 pm 
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4bp bad. It doesn't scale on a weapon pick system. Double the cost gives 50% more firepower. Yes you can fire alternate turns but its not an effective use of points as the game isn't always 4 turns.

Slow Fire even worse. Why does it take 15 minutes to reload? A manticore has to restock missiles from a trojan (and no doubt reposition etc). The Quake on a titan is a big breach loading gun? No extenal bits anywhere and presumably fed from an internal magazine?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:14 pm 
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Fair enough.

How about adding disrupt to the current stat?

I'm still not sure that it's good enough as-is.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:50 pm 
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Hmm have you read my posting?

If you want to keep Slow-firing then:

150cm 3BP or 2 x AP4+/AT4+ Indirect Fire, Disrupt, Slow-firing

OR
150cm 3BP or AP3+/AT3+ Indirect Fire, Disrupt, Slow-firing

with: Note: Can only use the Indirect Fire ability if firing barrages.

This would make the Quake Cannon an double as effective Earthshaker. Then i would suggest that only the Barrages are Slow-firing.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:04 pm 
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I follow your logic there BL, but even I baulk at a 150cm direct-firing weapon fitted to a titan class hull.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:06 pm 
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Then drop it to 120cm as in your proposal.
But remember that under my proposal a Quake Cannon gives only one or two Disrupt shots without BP if firing directly.




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Onyx
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:35 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 28 2008,20:14)
QUOTE
Fair enough.

How about adding disrupt to the current stat?

I'm still not sure that it's good enough as-is.

A better solution than this continued Slow Firing nonsense but how useful would it really be? Half the the targets hit are gonna be dead anyway (non RA targets) from MW. Not much of a boost.

I had a little laugh when I read you don't think its good enough as is so you want to improve by making it Slow Firing... ? :D  (along with the other improvements).

If you still want to improve it, why not just give it 4BP and keep everything else the same? I'm not sure I see the need for it but its better than all this extra range, Slow Firing stuff.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:39 pm 
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nonsense


This does not help.

I had a little laugh when I read you don't think its good enough as is so you want to improve by making it Slow Firing...   :D  (along with the other improvements).

Allow me to clarify ; The Quake Cannon could be a little underpowered at the moment as compared to 40k / the background, and its shot could possibly do with up-powering a little.

Possibly.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:41 pm 
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Oh, compared to 40k?

So what are the 40k effects of this compared to the volcanoe cannon on titans?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:56 pm 
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So what are the 40k effects of this compared to the volcanoe cannon on titans?


It's not as strong, (Strength 9 compared to Strength 'Destroyed'***)

The Quake Cannon has 50% more range.

The Quake Cannon uses two 10" templates (The Volcano Cannon uses one template too, but that's just daft!).

Marines in power armour don't get an armour save against the Quake Cannon, but Terminators do get an armour save.


*** Yes, that is the Volcano Cannon's rating in 40k.

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Onyx
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:22 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 28 2008,22:39)
QUOTE
nonsense


This does not help.

Fair call... Its late and I'm tired. Sorry mate.

Just really want to see this list be playable, fair and fun. You haven't really answered my initial question though. Are Titan armies that have Quake Cannons winning more than they should? Is there any game evidence with the existing stats that shows they need improving/nerfing?

It's not as strong, (Strength 9 compared to Strength 'Destroyed'***)
MW vs TK reflects this well.

The Quake Cannon has 50% more range.
Anything over 90cm isn't really needed.

The Quake Cannon uses two 10" templates (The Volcano Cannon uses one template too, but that's just daft!).
1 template for the Quake cannon compared to none for a Volcano Cannon reflects the wider target area well.

Marines in power armour don't get an armour save against the Quake Cannon, but Terminators do get an armour save.
Again, MW covers this perfectly.

About the only change you could make would be to increase the number of BP but I really don't see a need to change the existing stats.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Quake Cannon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:26 pm 
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Are Titan armies that have Quake Cannons winning more than they should? Is there any game evidence with the existing stats that shows they need improving/nerfing?


Nope, this is a purely fluff-driven suggestion of mine.

About the only change you could make would be to increase the number of BP but I really don't see a need to change the existing stats.

Yeah I'm coming round to this view too.

I guess you changed my mind, blunt words or not. :)

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