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The 2DC Marauder Bomber
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:29 pm 
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What if instead of this beast being 2DC with a 6+ save, and flying around in pairs (With the resultant 'sending in the healthy one first' messing about), we went for something like the following:


- Maruder Bomber
- 2DC
- 4+ Save
- 3BP (Fixed Forward)
- Twin Lascannon (Fixed Foward)
- Twin Heavy Bolter (All Round)
- Twin Heavy Bolter (Rear Arc)

And instead of fielding them as pairs, fielded them as singles, ala:


1 Marauder Bomber (Arkurion Pattern) - 150 Points.



I think fielding the 'heavy' version of the Marauder in pairs might be unbalancing them (Due to the mechanics of the aircraft section of the rules, I think it might be unavoidable too).

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:37 pm 
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Everyone else I believe always had their save as 6+. With 3BP, Lascannon and defensive weapons they were fine at 300 points for 2.

4+ save is a little high!

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:43 pm 
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I'm just spitballing from the starting point that I've found flights of two super-heavy bombers to be:

- A bit Gamey (Always sending in the undamaged Marauder first)

- Slightly too vulnerable (Which nessesitates the use of the gamey tactic mention above) as compared to their 40k equivilents (They're not much easier to kill than a Thunderhawk Gunship).


What if they had a 5+ armour save?

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:20 pm 
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They get tougher?

The idea was to become more surivable and having 2dc did that without needing a big save (15/36 chance of death compared to 5/36 for one hit).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:21 pm 
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I thought the idea with the 2DC stat was simply to make the stats reflect the FW model / 40k / the background (Basically everything that isn't Epic) where the Marauder is a super-heavy flyer of comparable size to the Thunderhawk Gunship.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:28 pm 
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Aircraft seem to have true-armour stats. Thats all around armour value 10 equals in Epic to Light Vehicle status und a 6+ save (see Sentinels) but if it is a Skimmer it's save increases to 4+.
But aircraft don't benefit from this. Insterad they canonly be hot by deidcated AA weapons.

Marauders have all around armour value 10. So i don't see them getting a better save than 6+.
In Wh40k a Thunderhawk has 3 DC same as a Marauder. But in Epic the Thunderhawk has only 2DC. So the Marauder should have 2 DC in Epic too.

But why wouldit be gamey to have always the lesser damaged aircraft at the front? If find it entirely believable that a pilot of an undamaged aircraft would protect his damaged friend/s from enemy attacks.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:30 pm 
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I always went with WWII medium bomber for a size and firepower comparison.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:45 pm 
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Even a WW2 medium bomber (Heinkel He111, Junker Ju88, etc) can withstand more damage than a Fighter (Messerschmitt Bf109, Spitfire, etc) or a Fighter-Bomber (Ju87 Stuka, etc).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:48 pm 
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Marauders have all around armour value 10.


Ah, I thought it was 11's at the front and sides.

I still think that armour 4 or 5+ would be more suitable than armour 6+.

A Thunderhawk only has armour 12, 12 & 10 (A far cry from a Leman Russ' 14/12/10) in 40k, yet it has 4+ RA in Epic (Ie: Because it dropped a DC, its armour became better to compensate, so the Marauder should gain the same benefit IMHO).

But why wouldit be gamey to have always the lesser damaged aircraft at the front? If find it entirely believable that a pilot of an undamaged aircraft would protect his damaged friend/s from enemy attacks.

Because you can always predict 100% accurately where incoming fire will hit your plane, externally of the simulation you can guarantee that the undamaged plane will take the first hit, which makes things quite gamey.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:50 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Apr. 14 2008,16:45)
QUOTE
Even a WW2 medium bomber (Heinkel He111, Junker Ju88, etc) can withstand more damage than a Fighter (Messerschmitt Bf109, Spitfire, etc) or a Fighter-Bomber (Ju87 Stuka, etc).

Hence 2dc!

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:33 pm 
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PLus of course the singles get an activation advantage. But just one bomber? Bit lonely isn't it? Not very Epic unless its carrying that MOAB.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:52 am 
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Also if there is more than 2 hits,


How often does that happen when facing AA?

In my experience, not often.

Certain elements of gameyness is very hard to remove.

I contend that it's very easy to remove if you make the plane fly solo. :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: The 2DC Marauder Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:40 pm 
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A lone Marauder is out of the question for me.
At least one Marauder and his Wingman has to be in one formation.

Oh and isn't the army structure of the Imperial Guard copied from the British Army?
So non-Armageddon Flights should be consisting of 3-6 aircrafts iirc for WW2 Flights.




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