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[BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:50 pm 
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If the titans ignore them then they can push forwars to grab objectives and get cross fire, andif they shoot them they have cover saves -1 to hit and are only infantry.


Maybe it's due to my tendency to field at least one inferno Warhound, but I don't find infantry garisons to be a problem for AMTL, they're just a quick speedbump on turn 1.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:05 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 30 2008,15:49)
QUOTE
The Siegemasters are shocked to be going first after re-rolling a tie!


You didn't use the birthday rule, so this game is now null and void as you weren't playing by the proper rules. :p

Well, my birthday *is* next, and we actually joked that the dice realized this when we saw the result.  *laugh*

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:24 pm 
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Turn 2

No teleports.

Strategy roll: AMTL

Warhound Pack Alpha doubles away from the Sappers, travels down the Sieger flank, and then unleashes hell on the Shadowsword? which takes 2DC damage and breaks!


Reaver Secundus doubles up and hoses down Infantry Company 1 and the Regimental HQ.  The Inf Co loses 2 Rapiers and the HQ loses a Sniper (Awww!) and a Thudd Gun.  *WHEW*  Could?ve been much worse!


Sieger Thunderbolts 1 get the reassurance of their Supreme Commander that no enemy planes are in the area, so they dive down to strafe Reaver Primus? dropping a Void shield.

Warhounds Beta advance, and fire up the hill at the Blitzen, taking out the remaining two guns, a Transport and breaking the two survivors, who move into the steaming Gun Emplacements.

The second Sieger Thunderbolt Squadron again attacks Reaver Primus, placing 1 Blast marker.

The AMTL Thunderbolts intercept them after their run and knock one of the planes out of the sky!

The lone tank of Ragnarok Squadron 2 sustains fire on Reaver Secundus, placing an all important Blast marker?

Battered from the sky, Reaver Primus marshals, moving forward onto the road and? removes 1 Blast marker and restores 1 Void Shield by rolling a ?1? and a ?2??

Infantry Company 1 advances through their own wire-line and gets close enough to fire on Reaver Secundus, placing another Blast marker.

Realizing what?s about to happen, the Titan Legion commander doubles both Warhounds Charlie and Delta into support range of Reaver Secundus.

Infantry Company 2 advances through the woods to fire on Warhounds Beta, dropping 2 Void shields from the lead Warhound.

The Deathstrike Launches try to double, but fail, making a single move instead.

The Regimental HQ makes a lateral advance and fires on Warhound Pack Alpha, dropping 2 Void shields from their lead Warhound.

The Sappers then charge forward, ?DO YOU APES WANT TO LIVE FOREVER?!? screams the Commissar, and engage Reaver Secundus in a firefight with the support of Infantry Company 1.  Due to Sieger cunning, only one of the nearby Warhounds is in support range to help the Reaver.


It?s a vicious fight, the Siegers drop all 4 Void shields and do 1DC damage to the Titan, while 4 Sappers are gunned down.  The roll-off? and the Titans only win by ?1?, killing another Sapper, while the Commissar leads the survivors back to cover?

End of Turn:

All Titans rally, and restore a lost Void shield each.

The Blitzen survivors, Ragnaroks 1, the Sappers, and the Shadowsword? all fail to rally? oh fudge!

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:44 pm 
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Turn 3

No teleports.

Strategy roll: AMTL

Reaver Secundus sustains fire on Infantry Company 1, giving them both barrels of napalm, and some laser blasts, taking out 2 Thudd Guns and 4 Infantry, and just breaking the formation, they stay dug in to their meager fortifications.

Sieger Thunderbolt 2 attacks Reaver Primus again, dropping both its Void shields.

Wahound Charile advances on the Reg HQ, and blasts away 2 Thudd Guns and a Rapier as it secures Siege Objective 1.

Warhound Delta advances as the other half of the pincer, grabbing Siege Objective 2 and also unloads on the Reg HQ, taking out 2 Infantry and breaking the company, who hunkers down in the Bunkers.

The lone tank of Ragnarok 2 advances and fires on Warhounds Beta, placing that preparatory Blast marker again?

And Infantry Company 2 need no encouragement to rush forward and engage Warhounds Beta? who oblige by barging into the Sieger?s field guns!


Another brutal fight? the Siegers lose 2 Rapiers and a Thudd gun, but manage to strip all 4 Void shields and do 2DC damage to the lead Warhound? which stumbles back into its brother before crashing to the ground!  The Siegers win!!!

The AMTL Thunderbolts intercept the annoying Sieger T-bolts 2? and shoot both planes down!

Diving out of the sun, the lone T-bolt of Squadron 1 intercepts the AMTL planes and shoots one of *them* down!

Warhound Pack Alpha strides forward to engage the broken Regimental HQ? they lose 2 Void shields, slaughtering all but the Commissar who drags the badly wounded Supreme Commander to safety? one hopes!


Left out of most of the battle, Reaver Primus doubles down the road and the targeting cognator pings? ?TARGET ACQUIRED?

The Titan unleashes everything on the single Deathstrike Launcher it can see, and easily destroys it, breaking the survivor?

End of Turn:

The surviving Titan of Pack Beta fails to rally.

With word of the battle perhaps being over, all the Sieger formations *except* the Supreme Commander and the Deathstrikes rally? HUZZAH!  *sigh*

Score: AMTL 2 (T-n-H, TSNP) vs Siegemasters 0 (none) ? AMTL victory!

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:49 pm 
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Nice to see an AMTL win for once. :D

So... Plasma too powerful?

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ragnarok
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:55 pm 
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Yes AMTL win!

Was it your problem with rallying or the lack of AT weapons that helped them win do you think?  Or is AMTL over powered? :D

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:16 pm 
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(ragnarok @ Mar. 30 2008,16:55)
QUOTE
Was it your problem with rallying or the lack of AT weapons that helped them win do you think? ?Or is AMTL over powered? :D

Couldn't it be all three? ?*laugh*

I probably should've waited with the Deathstrikes vs Reaver Primus; stripped the Void shields with the planes first or fired with Ragnarok 2 or something, but I was worried about losing them to a suicidual airstrike. ?Knocking out that Reaver early would've really changed the battle results.

1) I'm not really that experienced with Siegemasters and it's an army that doesn't play well with my, usually, aggressive style... I'm going to try and play it more to get a better handle on things.

2) Losing the majority of my AT punch in the early stages of Turn 1 really hurt a lot... and not getting a single Shadowsword shot out hurt even more! ?*laugh*

3) Not being able to rally key formations was brutal, but, if it had gone to Turn 4, with the Deathstrike Launcher surviving, I think the Siegers could've done a *little* more damage. ?*laugh*

Now, on to the Titan Legion comments:

1) ?Plasma is very powerful, even if slow-firing. ?E&C, you may think it "wasteful" to use on infantry, but *erasing* 6-8 units from a formation tends to break it pretty quickly; negating the cover saves is a big deal in my mind. ?Slow-firing doesn't seem to be as big a drawback as many people believe... just use your "recharging" Titans for assaults that turn... Warhounds can project firefight up to 45cm from their starting positions!

2) Warhound Packs are *cheaper* Reavers, with more guns, higher speed, and faster regenerating Void shields. ?Yes, their armour is worse and one can get suppressed, but they should be looked at in the above light when you can take multiples of them with relative ease.

3) This is from my opponent, the AMTL player: "If you play aggressively, there's no need to spend any points on 'better' weapons, when the 'free' ones are just as good, the 'better' weapons just don't compare at 100 points a pop."

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:42 pm 
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After that game, we played another "man and machine" battle... but this time, is was Warmachine!  *laugh*

A 750 point battle of Cygnar (Caine, my opponent) vs Khador (The Old Witch, me... er... *laugh*)... and I *schooled* him; all he had left in the end was Caine and two Long Gunner troopers... *laugh*

So we were both 50/50 against each other.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:42 pm 
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A slight querry on the use of barrage templates,I thought that all templates,even extra ones had to attempt to target as many units from the target formation as possible.


from 1.9.8 in the rule book,
In addition, templates must be placed in such a
way as to get as many enemy units from the target formation under them as possible within the restrictions for lines
of fire and range. This stops players ?sniping? at important units with artillery


It appears that on the 2nd photo for turn 2 the 2nd template is placed over a different formation instead of more units from the target formation.This may not be the case but appears that way.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:46 pm 
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(dptdexys @ Mar. 30 2008,17:42)
QUOTE
A slight querry on the use of barrage templates,I thought that all templates,even extra ones had to attempt to target as many units from the target formation as possible.

Hey dptdexys, you seem to have glossed over this part of the barrage rules:

Extra Barrage Templates: Large barrages may receive extra Barrage templates. The Barrage table will tell you if a barrage receives any extra Barrage templates. Place any extra templates so that they touch the first template that was placed, and so that no templates overlap. All units under the templates are attacked with the barrage?s to hit values.

Note that once the first template has been placed, the attacker may choose where to place the additional templates, as long as they are touching the first ?template, and no line of fire, placement or range restrictions apply (see below).

So, you can hit "other" formations with any extra templates you recieve... and it's a nasty way of handing out a *lot* of extra Blast markers with bigger barrages.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:04 pm 
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Interesting report thanks for sharing it with us. I was going to say is it worth discussing moving Warhound Packs to support choices again, but I don't think that would have helped here.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:09 pm 
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(Chroma @ Mar. 30 2008,17:16)
QUOTE
1) I'm not really that experienced with Siegemasters and it's an army that doesn't play well with my, usually, aggressive style... I'm going to try and play it more to get a better handle on things.

In my experience with the Death Korps (A similar army), you should be holding back for the first two turns, before advancing on the third.

Forget any dreams of claiming the blitz. :D


1)  Plasma is very powerful, even if slow-firing.  E&C, you may think it "wasteful" to use on infantry, but *erasing* 6-8 units from a formation tends to break it pretty quickly; negating the cover saves is a big deal in my mind.  Slow-firing doesn't seem to be as big a drawback as many people believe... just use your "recharging" Titans for assaults that turn... Warhounds can project firefight up to 45cm from their starting positions!


I agree that Plasma is powerful, and I'm glad to see it getting such an extensive workout!


*erasing* 6-8 units from a formation tends to break it

To do that, you'd need at minimum two Warhounds, and more realistically, three.

That's 775pts / 825pts spent on breaking a formation that costs a third of that price...

2) Warhound Packs are *cheaper* Reavers, with more guns, higher speed, and faster regenerating Void shields.  Yes, their armour is worse and one can get suppressed, but they should be looked at in the above light when you can take multiples of them with relative ease.

Raise basic price of Warhound packs to 525pts?


3) This is from my opponent, the AMTL player: "If you play aggressively, there's no need to spend any points on 'better' weapons, when the 'free' ones are just as good, the 'better' weapons just don't compare at 100 points a pop."

Certainly noted. :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:11 pm 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Mar. 30 2008,18:04)
QUOTE
Interesting report thanks for sharing it with us. I was going to say is it worth discussing moving Warhound Packs to support choices again, but I don't think that would have helped here.

It wouldn't have, since Warhound Packs are a Support Choice. :)

+25pts for Warhound Packs?

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:17 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 30 2008,18:11)
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+25pts for Warhound Packs?

At least... *laugh*

Why the two-pack Warhound formation is more "valuable" to Titan Legions than they are for other armies is two-fold:

1) Minor point: You don't have to worry about that 1/3 limitation preventing you from taking only two formations of them and cutting into aircraft.

2) Major point: You can customize them as you desire for any job you like!  *laugh*  How often do people take the "standard" Warhound in a Titan Legion list?  I don't think it happens that often.  *laugh*

Both of those "points" should be worth something... like points!  *laugh*

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dptdexys
 Post subject: [BatRep] War Gryphons (3.08) vs Siegemasters
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:39 pm 
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Hi Chroma,check the FAQs
Q: In Section 1.9.8 it says: "Note that once the first template has been placed, the attacker may choose
where to place the additional templates, as long as they are touching the first template, and no line of fire, placement or range restrictions apply". Does this mean that the original stipulation that each template must cover as many units in the target formation as possible is not in effect for any additional templates placed by a barrage.

A: The first template that is placed must be placed so as to cover as many units from the target formation as possible, but may only be placed in positions where all units contributing BPs to the attack have a LOF and are in range to at least one unit under the template. Additional templates must be placed touching (not overlapping) the first template, but within this restriction must still be placed to cover as many units as
possible from the target formation. There is no range or LOF requirement for the additional templates that are placed.
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